Keen

Should Keen and Improved Critical Stack?

  • Yes, it provides a certain flavor and isn't overpowered.

    Votes: 47 71.2%
  • No, swashbuckling rapier artists are overpowered.

    Votes: 19 28.8%

I prefer to make each one a simple "becomes 1 wider" effect, and then let them stack. Thus, rapier or greatsword, neither benefits more from being keen than the other does, in terms of % chance to threaten.
 

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Pax said:
I prefer to make each one a simple "becomes 1 wider" effect, and then let them stack. Thus, rapier or greatsword, neither benefits more from being keen than the other does, in terms of % chance to threaten.

But it does make an Improved Crit, Keen Pick much scarier than an Improved Crit, Keen Rapier.

-Hyp.
 

"I'll take the Impr. Crit Keen Greataxe, sir!" :)

I.e.: Pax, check out the important relationship between threat range, crit. multiplier, and weapon damage. They are not independent variables.
 

It's simply innaccurate to say that the 3.5 anibuff changes have made critmonsters more effective. The earliest level for a critmonster is level 8 where Improved Crit first becomes available. By that time, in 3.0, Empowered Bull's strengths were also available and, in a couple of levels afterward, became the norm. So, the critmonster didn't have +2-5 to his strength (and, BTW, fully half of those results would be as good as the 3.5 Bull's Strength). Instead, he had 3-7 (empowered) or even 4-10 (double empowered) additional points of strength. And that's just the strength bonus--it's not considering whether or not it is still cast and, if it is, when it is cast (it will often not come into effect immediately and therefore the critmonster's first--and most significant--attack may well lack the Bull's strength bonus).

The changes in Power Attack may make it a good thing that crit range increases don't stack (although I don't think that's the case myself). The changes in Bull's Strength, however, unambiguously, and indisputably reduce the effectiveness of the falchion critmonster however.

They reduce the effectiveness of other types of fighters too. However, the reduction disproportionately effects offensively focussed fighters like the falchion critmonster. Finesse fighters are less likely to rely on strength and sword+board fighters tend towards a defensive focus that makes round one damage less important (duration) and that often means that their role in the party is something other than primary damage dealer.

Ridley's Cohort said:
All the special bonus you need are Str and Power Attack. With a more potent (albeit shorter duration) Bull's Strength and Power Attack in 3.5, the falchion critmonster would get a huge boost if you allow keen to stack with improved critical.

The falchion critmonster was very powerful in 3.0. It is a Good Thing to remove the stacking, especially given the changes in Bull's Strength and Power Attack.
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
They reduce the effectiveness of other types of fighters too. However, the reduction disproportionately effects offensively focussed fighters like the falchion critmonster. Finesse fighters are less likely to rely on strength and sword+board fighters tend towards a defensive focus that makes round one damage less important (duration) and that often means that their role in the party is something other than primary damage dealer.

You can't use Weapon Finesse with a falchion. And in any case, a falchion does on average 2 points less damage than a greatsword per hit, or 4 points less on a critical. That should be good enough to balance out the higher crit probability, even if keen and IC don't stack. At high levels, it also becomes minor compared to Str, enhancement bonuses, and energy damage enchantments.

One thing I've noticed is that in terms of spotlight time (the most meaningful measure of balance), people tend to remember big hits much more than they do little ones. That's even if the little ones in aggregate cause the bulk of damage. Taking down half a dozen orcs with Cleave is like "yeah, whatever", but a crit for 50 points or so really sticks in the mind. So the falchion wielder should still be fine; they'll still be doing more big hits than everyone else, despite the rule change.
 

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