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Keeping track of combat length (for posterity)

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
Maybe damage/round can be assumed to be (total monster hp) / (# rounds) ?
That was my thought as well. I don't want to track stuff in the middle of the fight, but I'm okay with tallying things up at the end.

I'm just curious as to the effect of a striker (or, for each added striker) on damage/round, total rounds, and resources used (dailies used, APs used, surges used, etc).
Damage/round up = # rounds down... that one's easy.

Dailies used same and APs used same because strikers bring and use their own.

Surges used probably same. Every role brings some way to save the party surges. Defenders get damage mitigation or retributive attacks. Controllers make monsters unable to attack effectively with conditions. Strikers make monsters unable to attack effectively with death. Leaders increase party offense or defense.
 

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Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
That was my thought as well. I don't want to track stuff in the middle of the fight, but I'm okay with tallying things up at the end.
That's my inclination as well. I have enough stuff going on during the game...
blargney the second said:
Damage/round up = # rounds down... that one's easy.

Dailies used same and APs used same because strikers bring and use their own.

Surges used probably same. Every role brings some way to save the party surges. Defenders get damage mitigation or retributive attacks. Controllers make monsters unable to attack effectively with conditions. Strikers make monsters unable to attack effectively with death. Leaders increase party offense or defense.
Well, but I want to know how many rounds each additional striker will affect the total number of rounds by. The direction of the change is easy to glean, I think.

You think surges, dailies, and APs are the same? I figured that without a striker, since the combats are longer, the monsters deal more damage to everyone, causing people to use more surges (though, maybe the same number of surges per round, I don't know). And, I figured a similar story with APs and dailies as well. If you have a controller in place of a striker, you might make the monsters suffer more conditions, but they're still likely dealing. You'd say that the reduced damage, over the course of the encounter, makes up for the striker's ability to make monsters stop dealing damage altogether?
 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
Well, but I want to know how many rounds each additional striker will affect the total number of rounds by.
To find this out, you'd need to run a control group where the only variable you change is substituting one striker for something else. Either you'd want to use the exact same dice rolls or repeat the combat enough times to be statistically relevant. I'm not about to subject myself to either of those!

You think surges, dailies, and APs are the same?
Dailies and APs will be the same for sure. 4e guarantees that two PCs of the same level have the same number of dailies. Likewise, the number of APs is in lockstep throughout the day (with a few exceptions that generate bonus APs).

Surges used should remain largely the same. Good controllers can stop monsters from doing any damage at all while they're still alive. That's some serious surge protection!
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
To find this out, you'd need to run a control group where the only variable you change is substituting one striker for something else. Either you'd want to use the exact same dice rolls or repeat the combat enough times to be statistically relevant. I'm not about to subject myself to either of those!
I was hoping (over time) to collect enough data points from multiple sources to find a trend.
 

the Jester

Legend
I'm really going to try to remember to start tracking these things...

Although our Friday game starts mid-fight, and the party likely will have a REALLY hard encounter, so the numbers might not be too standard.

Still, worth a look...
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
I'm really going to try to remember to start tracking these things...

Although our Friday game starts mid-fight, and the party likely will have a REALLY hard encounter, so the numbers might not be too standard.

Still, worth a look...
Don't worry about non-standard numbers. It all averages out. :D
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'm trying to convince one of my controllers (a Wizard who likes to deal damage anyways) to try a striker class (Sorcerer is... kind of a similar flavor?)

In my game the wizard is the highest damaging guy.

There are wizard dailies that are very strikerish (flaming sphere, icy grasp, etc) and once you have a few dailies there's no reason not to use one per fight (most wizard dailies can last the encounter).

While he doesn't do the most single target damage, the fact that he's hitting multiple guys (and therefore gets a lot of crits) means he does plenty of damage.
 

Wik

First Post
In my game the wizard is the highest damaging guy.

There are wizard dailies that are very strikerish (flaming sphere, icy grasp, etc) and once you have a few dailies there's no reason not to use one per fight (most wizard dailies can last the encounter).

While he doesn't do the most single target damage, the fact that he's hitting multiple guys (and therefore gets a lot of crits) means he does plenty of damage.

Oh, absolutely. I remember playing one of my first 4e characters in a dungeon delve, with a 5th level wizard or so. I used fireball and hit around seven targets, dealing around 13 damage to each. I felt pretty glum about blowing a daily and doing such a small amount of damage... until Blargney reminded me that, not counting the minions, I did something like 52 points of damage in a single round, nearly doubling the striker's output.
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Oh, I'm not questioning a controller's or a wizard's ability to deal a lot of damage to a number of creatures, but there's something to be said about a striker's ability to take down the number of creatures quickly, thus preventing them from dealing damage to the party. That's a significant difference.

Though, blargney points out that a controller and prevent creatures from dealing damage without killing them.
 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
Session 7: 2.5 hours total
#1) 90 minutes, 2000 XP (!), 9 crits, 1 daily utility, 1 action point, 3 surges. 6 rounds vs 16 minions, 5 brutes, 3 skirmishers with ~1100 hps.

We followed the main road west towards Arien, noticing that it was suffering from a distinct lack of recent use. At one point we spotted a bloody scrap of hairy, gray skin caught on the nasty brambles growing in the underbrush of the forest to the south of us. We decided it came from a drow in mid-mutation and moved on.

Forest gave way to plains, which gradually turned into farmland. The road ahead ran over a small hill, with some tall grass to the right and a small copse of bramble-infested forest on the left. The minotaur and halfling's keen eyes spotted a 50' arc of potholes arrayed across the road at the foot of the hill, as well as a bevy of humanoids hiding in the tall grass.

The eight grimlocks realized that their ambush was sprung, so they charged in to attack us. Once we had responded to their attack, a second group of 5 grimlocks pincered us from the south bramble patch. After another exchange of attacks the ranks of minions were drastically thinned, and the tougher ones were on the ropes. One of the brutes pulled out a horn and prepared to issue a blast. As it raised the horn to its mouth, the minotaur slammed it straight into the blind creature's mouth. He chuckled heartily at ruining its attempt to summon allies.

After one more round of attacks, only a couple of grimlocks were left standing. Unfortunately our fighter was unable to prevent a second horn blast, and it was answered twice from the south. Within seconds, the last remaining grimlock from the first two waves was joined by a force of 4 allies, and 8 more were 100' away back to the southeast. The wizard unleashed a devastating blood pulse on the large approaching group, wiping all but two out. After that, the mop-up took a mere few seconds.

Continuing along the road, we came across a second well-travelled track leading to the north east, and realized that travellers had been avoiding that stretch of road because of the grimlock ambushers.

After a while, we noticed a blue light emanating through the shutters of a fair-sized, two-storey farmhouse atop a low rise to the north. A fenced garden to the side of the house contained several rows of herbs. The minotaur became transfixed by a free-growing patch of parsley and started to graze contentedly. Meanwhile, the door to the garden flapped slowly in the breeze. The wizard opened the door with a mage hand onto a horrific scene.

The dining room table was heaped with the bones of dozens of corpses, and the walls and ceiling were coated with smears of blood. Blue-glowing fey flies covered the blood, looking for all the world like the interior of the house had phosphorescent veins. A grey-skinned humanoid watched us from the far side of the table, its skin distended horribly with basketball-sized lumps that moved of their own volition. When it was alive it would have been an eladrin, but now it gnawed the flesh from the forearm of another of its former race.

The festivities began with a couple of the undead creatures bursting out the shuttered window, while others emerged from closed rooms and the staircase from upstairs.

To be continued on Monday...
 

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