trancejeremy
Adventurer
bento said:
Yeah, that's the catch. Mail in rebate, which in my experience, is exactly like "the check is in the mail", that is, a scam. I don't think I've ever gotten one.
Ken Hite Re: The RPG Industry
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
Yeah, that's the catch. Mail in rebate, which in my experience, is exactly like "the check is in the mail", that is, a scam. I don't think I've ever gotten one.
Hairfoot
First Post
I used "book club" to describe groups which nominate a book of the month, read it, then assemble to discuss the book: the author's style, likes/dislikes, what they would have liked the author to have done differently etc. It's gaining popularity as a social activity which doesn't involve alcohol or sport, but does involve the intellect. Good article here: books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1411452,00.htmlCeresco said:
In some cases a publisher lends assistance with establishing and managing the group so that their product reaches a wider audience.
My idea is that WotC could enroll "designated DMs" who receive regularly updated campaign material from HQ in order to run campaigns that have some consistency in quality and flavour worldwide. Players who attend could contribute a small fee and receive a bound SRD, plus regular campaign updates packed with adverts for the publisher's newest products.
With commercial endorsement and support, groups could be run from community centres, social clubs, libraries, or - better yet - co-designed with educators so that they could be run as elective or extra-curricular activities for schools and universities.
It could open the hobby up to people who might never walk in to their FLGS or go out of their way to find a group which plays around someone's kitchen table in the suburbs. It also could break the knee-jerk D&D=Satanism/geekness reaction, and demonstrate that RPG doesn't mean LARPing.
Actually, I wouldn't nominate D&D at the vanguard - the appeal of the genre is too narrow - but D20 Buffy, D20 Matrix, or (holiest of holies) D20 Harry Potter would be ideal.
Computers are going to eat tabletop alive unless we play up the strengths of TT: interaction, socialising, in-depth narratives. A lot of people who attend reading groups also aspire to write. It seems to me that RPGs are right on the border between being a reader and an author, being more involved than the former and less daunting than the latter.
Hussar
Legend
I think that the idea that computers are going to eat TT alive is probably true. But, I also think that publishers truly need to start looking at online models. There is a small but pretty solid core of gamers who play either partially or completely online. Either in chat based games or PbP or a combination of both.
Right now, there is nothing marketed towards those gamers other than a couple of gaming platforms like Fantasy Grounds. If WOTC wanted to, they could pay someone to develop a really kick ass online platform that supports chat. Follow it up by selling add ons for the platform from books and/or modules. Dungeon could also get into the act by publishing material for online games, much like it already does with its monthly pdf's.
A really concerted effort by the big publishers, read WOTC, could see an online gaming industry that could truly boost sales. Heck, run conventions on a monthly basis where some of the big names run games.
While you couldn't probably charge a monthly subscription - I doubt people would pay - you could certainly use these online events to draw in new players.
I honestly think that this is a really untapped segment of the market.
Right now, there is nothing marketed towards those gamers other than a couple of gaming platforms like Fantasy Grounds. If WOTC wanted to, they could pay someone to develop a really kick ass online platform that supports chat. Follow it up by selling add ons for the platform from books and/or modules. Dungeon could also get into the act by publishing material for online games, much like it already does with its monthly pdf's.
A really concerted effort by the big publishers, read WOTC, could see an online gaming industry that could truly boost sales. Heck, run conventions on a monthly basis where some of the big names run games.
While you couldn't probably charge a monthly subscription - I doubt people would pay - you could certainly use these online events to draw in new players.
I honestly think that this is a really untapped segment of the market.
Wombat
First Post
I think of my FLGS. The guy in charge of the store wanted to start up a roleplaying store. He also put in other material -- board games, ccgs, non-rpg minis, etc.
As he told me, rpgs are poor sales. Thus he relies on Flames of War minis to pay the bills.
Of his stock, rpgs take up 50% of his space, but only make up 30% of his sales.
Of the rpgs, D&D (not D20) makes up 65% of his rpg sales. Other D20 products (including things like D20 Modern, etc.) make up about another 10%. Another 12% is White Wolf products. 5% is GURPS. All other rpgs make up the remaining 8%, no other line making up even 1%. And due to demands for various particular books, he is now strictly on a order-and-pay-in-advance for all non-WotC/White Wolf products. No returns. He got burned too often.
The other local gaming store cut its rpg line entirely -- they make much more money off of jigsaw puzzles.
Yeah, local stores are having a very hard time with product.
As he told me, rpgs are poor sales. Thus he relies on Flames of War minis to pay the bills.
Of his stock, rpgs take up 50% of his space, but only make up 30% of his sales.
Of the rpgs, D&D (not D20) makes up 65% of his rpg sales. Other D20 products (including things like D20 Modern, etc.) make up about another 10%. Another 12% is White Wolf products. 5% is GURPS. All other rpgs make up the remaining 8%, no other line making up even 1%. And due to demands for various particular books, he is now strictly on a order-and-pay-in-advance for all non-WotC/White Wolf products. No returns. He got burned too often.
The other local gaming store cut its rpg line entirely -- they make much more money off of jigsaw puzzles.
Yeah, local stores are having a very hard time with product.
bento
Explorer
trancejeremy,
I found really good service from Staples on the whole rebate thing.
I purchased a printer from them recently (to print out all my pdfs) and they gave me a brochure to their web site that takes care of it for you. You go to their site, type in your info - I think they already know what you bought from your receipt and store number. They then send you e-mails letting you know the status and alerting you when the check has been released.
Didn't have to mail anything in. Cool!
I found really good service from Staples on the whole rebate thing.
I purchased a printer from them recently (to print out all my pdfs) and they gave me a brochure to their web site that takes care of it for you. You go to their site, type in your info - I think they already know what you bought from your receipt and store number. They then send you e-mails letting you know the status and alerting you when the check has been released.
Didn't have to mail anything in. Cool!
delericho
Legend
I don't think face-to-face roleplaying will ever truly disappear, as there are some things that an actual DM can offer that a computer just can't, notably the ability to move away from the hard-wired plot on an extended basis. I don't see it ever being possible to run a Spelljammer/d20 Modern/Steampunk crossover on a PC, for example, but doing it with an actual DM is relatively straightforward.
That said, I do think the model of groups gathering to play games will become less and less common. Instead, I fully expect games to move to a mostly online format, especially as video chat programs become more common and more powerful. It's getting hard for a lot of groups to get together on a regular basis in realspace, and it's quite hard to find groups when you move to a new town. Move gaming online, and both of these problems disappear -there are so many players that finding an online group whenever you want to play becomes easier, and if you're playing in cyberspace then it makes little difference where in the world you are.
So, I think RPG companies should maybe be looking very carefully at online roleplaying, and seeing what can be done to facilitate it. As far as I can see, what we need most are electronic battlemats, networked character management tools, and web-connected dice. (And better chat software, but that's coming anyway.)
(The web-connected dice is a nice-to-have but non-essential part of the experience. Online dice rollers are okay, but nothing beats the feel of real dice. So, what you do is build some dice with value sensors and a Bluetooth link (or equivalent) embedded within. That way, you get to roll real dice, and the values are automatically sent to your DM. There is a pesky power issue to solve, but the technology is otherwise available - it just needs reduced in cost considerably.)
On another topic, I think there's a great deal for companies designing a line to be deliberately limited. Very often, sourcebooks beyond the first don't sell anyway, and they add progressively less to the quality of the game anyway.
Furthermore, I think companies should consciously try to stop expending more development energy than they need to. Specifically, this means that they shouldn't waste time developing new rules systems when an existing system would work just as well. (This, in turn, requires the likes of White Wolf, Wizkids and WEG opening their house systems, but in each case the core mechanic is so simple that there's not a lot lost in doing so. Also, 'opening' the system does not necessarily mean providing an SRD, or allowing them to reprint it wholesale - a license could be developed to allow use, but not reproduction, of the system. Why would they want to open the systems, and help their competitors? More core rulebook sales.)
Finally, to continue existing, companies must either get their products on Amazon (or other big online stockists), switch to .pdfs, or do extremely limited, extremely pricey print runs. Of these, the pdf route is most likely to succeed. That being the case, in order to survive game stores will need to branch out from RPGs, stock only the big sellers (WotC and White Wolf, plus a few other things), make sure they don't sit on dead stock, and provide something to the gaming community that they can't get anywhere else (and charge for it). If game groups go online, I can't see what that might be, unless it is big tables on which to engage in massed minis battles (which isn't really a roleplaying thing anyway).
That said, I do think the model of groups gathering to play games will become less and less common. Instead, I fully expect games to move to a mostly online format, especially as video chat programs become more common and more powerful. It's getting hard for a lot of groups to get together on a regular basis in realspace, and it's quite hard to find groups when you move to a new town. Move gaming online, and both of these problems disappear -there are so many players that finding an online group whenever you want to play becomes easier, and if you're playing in cyberspace then it makes little difference where in the world you are.
So, I think RPG companies should maybe be looking very carefully at online roleplaying, and seeing what can be done to facilitate it. As far as I can see, what we need most are electronic battlemats, networked character management tools, and web-connected dice. (And better chat software, but that's coming anyway.)
(The web-connected dice is a nice-to-have but non-essential part of the experience. Online dice rollers are okay, but nothing beats the feel of real dice. So, what you do is build some dice with value sensors and a Bluetooth link (or equivalent) embedded within. That way, you get to roll real dice, and the values are automatically sent to your DM. There is a pesky power issue to solve, but the technology is otherwise available - it just needs reduced in cost considerably.)
On another topic, I think there's a great deal for companies designing a line to be deliberately limited. Very often, sourcebooks beyond the first don't sell anyway, and they add progressively less to the quality of the game anyway.
Furthermore, I think companies should consciously try to stop expending more development energy than they need to. Specifically, this means that they shouldn't waste time developing new rules systems when an existing system would work just as well. (This, in turn, requires the likes of White Wolf, Wizkids and WEG opening their house systems, but in each case the core mechanic is so simple that there's not a lot lost in doing so. Also, 'opening' the system does not necessarily mean providing an SRD, or allowing them to reprint it wholesale - a license could be developed to allow use, but not reproduction, of the system. Why would they want to open the systems, and help their competitors? More core rulebook sales.)
Finally, to continue existing, companies must either get their products on Amazon (or other big online stockists), switch to .pdfs, or do extremely limited, extremely pricey print runs. Of these, the pdf route is most likely to succeed. That being the case, in order to survive game stores will need to branch out from RPGs, stock only the big sellers (WotC and White Wolf, plus a few other things), make sure they don't sit on dead stock, and provide something to the gaming community that they can't get anywhere else (and charge for it). If game groups go online, I can't see what that might be, unless it is big tables on which to engage in massed minis battles (which isn't really a roleplaying thing anyway).
This whole "We're the friendly local game store. We're gonna have a terrible turn rate and tons of unsold stock and not suffer because 'We're the Friendly Local Game Store!' "
doesn't fly any more. They need to order directly from the dealer and pass it to customers for a better turn rate.
Secondly, "We can charge full retail, maybe even with a markup, and people will still buy from us because 'We're The Friendly Local Game Store!' isn't going to work any longer, either.
Online sellers and deep discounters are eating my local FLGS alive. Do the math. A box for 70 dollars or for a 100, what do people buy more of? A pack for 2 or a pack for 3.40, what do people buy? The book for 30 or the book for 18, what do people buy? Game stores aren't supplying what gamers are demanding, books below retail, and they are suffering for it. Game stores simply cannot charge full retail and expect to get away with it anymore. Not with eBay and the like. Not with deep discounters. Not with e-books.
doesn't fly any more. They need to order directly from the dealer and pass it to customers for a better turn rate.
Secondly, "We can charge full retail, maybe even with a markup, and people will still buy from us because 'We're The Friendly Local Game Store!' isn't going to work any longer, either.
Online sellers and deep discounters are eating my local FLGS alive. Do the math. A box for 70 dollars or for a 100, what do people buy more of? A pack for 2 or a pack for 3.40, what do people buy? The book for 30 or the book for 18, what do people buy? Game stores aren't supplying what gamers are demanding, books below retail, and they are suffering for it. Game stores simply cannot charge full retail and expect to get away with it anymore. Not with eBay and the like. Not with deep discounters. Not with e-books.
kigmatzomat
Legend
trancejeremy said:
Check here. http://slickdeals.net They have deals that cycle out routinely, and the best deals tend to come at the end of the quarters as places like Dell try to hit their market estimates. If you check back into May you'll see some relatively nice laptops that are $300 post rebate, $400-600 pre-rebate.
Right now the cheapest shown is $550 (whoops, it's expired) and it's a Dell with plenty of horsepower (14" display is kinda small but great for portability). Combine with a free download of Open Office for MS compatibility, PCGen and Autorealms and you've got a nice gamer laptop.
Keep your eyes open and you might find what you want.
Vocenoctum
First Post
I also used to have lots of bad luck with rebates, but lately I've been doing okay with them. I bought a pair of routers, each had two rebates and I got 3 of the 4, I didn't feel like tracking down teh info for the 4th. For my laptop from HP, I got 2 rebates, both showed.trancejeremy said:
A lot of times they intentionally delay rebates because they want to avoid you returning it, but also mostly to screw with people.
Companies like BestBuy, CompUSA, HP, they make tracking rebates easy now adays.
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