D&D 5E (2014) Killed Me a Lawful Stupid Paladin

[Bayushi_seikuro]

This, a 5E deadly encounter often isn't that deadly though. With feats and good ability scores you are also effectively a level higher or so, good equipment as well maybe 2.

Personally I don't use the encounter rules and even if I did if the PCs attacked everything knowing that eventually they will come a cropper.

Instead of 6-8 encounters 4-6 is more typical. Alot of 5E only players groups seem to nova s lot. They're more aggressive than experienced players in that regard I've noticed.

Generally I go for 1 opponent per person of the party plus one usually if CR no higher than half the party level.

My 4 encounters last week for 5 4th level PCs.

6 orcs
3 orcs, orog, tweaked veteren, cr2 spellcaster
2 Warforged knights, 2 veterans
1 Cambion, one priest.

So once CR creeps up past half party level I start reducing numbers.

I might break these guidelines if I'm running less encounters.

I do go with a living world scenario so if the big bad has a CR 12 guardian at his door it's always CR 12 even if the PCs atrack it. That great wrym dragon that is known about is a gonna be the same regardless if when or if the PCs go after it.

They also might be able to deal with it indirectly. Fund a bigger dragon for example.

I do use deception though where appropriate. A red dragon with alter self or whatever may lose as a green dragon. If the PCs can find an account though if a green dragon breathing fire that's a clue.

Conned them good the other night, a street waif got a lot of money out of them but turned out to be a halfling conman.

I think it's good to have these discussions because it goes to show there's no real 'correct' way to run the game. There are guidelines, there are individual tables and worlds and to me it's more important that it's consistant.

For example, my worlds tend towards the thinking that someone being fifth level is pretty exceptional. Yes, they will find things on their power level but more likely than not, they are powering out of humanoids being a physical challenge to them and crossing into the realm where supernatural things are more of the danger to them. Another example might be the old 1e monks and druids - you only had one at the highest level, with perhaps four under him/her/them. The ultimate pyramid scheme, I reckon

 

[Zardnaar]

Nothing unreasonable there, in fact, that is approximately 6,650 XP of creatures.
The Adventuring Day budget for Five, 4th level characters is 8,500 XP.
You could have thrown in an extra Cambion.

A Deadly encounter for this group, would be 2,000 XP worth of creatures....your highest XP budgeted encounter came in at 2,800 XP...which in my experience, would be fine.

A party with Heat Metal and Charm Magic could blow through some of those encounters. Other parties might struggle. The dice, as always in 5e, matter.

I would say, you eyeballed this Adventuring Day correctly, Zardnaar.
That deserves a cookie! DM's always deserve a beer!

Most of the encounters were easy side to me.

Final encounter was planned to be tough but as hoc toned it down.

Cambion was Vanthus Vanderboren idk how many here will get that reference.

 

[Krachek]

Still wants to play.


Happy Pirates was shorthand for no rape, slaving, murder etc which I did cover.

He got more detailed version of session 0 on messenger. I've got I few rules some I specifically covered.

1. I don't care if you get yourself killed. I do care if you get others killed.

2. No PvP.

3. No stealing off other PCs.

4. Don't deliberatly make a weak character. Don't need to be a powergamer but don't deliberatly make crap PC.

5. Don't role play a jerk character. This includes excessive cowardice, anti social loners, and CN jerks.

He did miss the be prompt on timing. Out of combat you get about 5 minutes to RP a situation, in combat you get around a minute.

Last ones mostly about time management if you have ,5 or 6 people at the table it's not fair if you try and hog say half an hour on a side quest espicially if you try and create said side quest.

The rules are guidelines though if you take 10 minutes and everyone else is enjoying it it's fine. Last hour of session this started around 20:15 and took up next half hour.

Maybe he got bored because it was a combat free session and he built a one trick pony. The artificer tends to be the skill monkey, two sorcerer's often do social stuff, the sailor does sailor type stuff.

Last two sessions were combat heavy mostly due to noise levels (30 odd people playing).

Good then, roll another character and the show continue.
Get killed in DnD is not stupid, get killed driving drunk is.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think it's a lost cause here. Kept bugging me for a week when I said no Tritons for example.

This is the same guy that wanted to play a Hexblade Triton before?

Facepalm.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is the same guy that wanted to play a Hexblade Triton before?

Facepalm.

Yeah.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah.

What you should have done:

1) Work with him on his PC concept. Help him fluff his Hexblade weapon into a cool Trident or similar; a symbol of his rulership over the Tritons, before they were taken over by the Evil faction.

This gets him personally invested in his character, something he (at present) has no reason to do.

2) Should he have taken umbrage at the NPC in this example, ask him why his PC is so upset. Remind him of his alignment and character goals. Ask him how a duel with this NPC advances (or is in accordance) with either, or how it speaks to one of his stated character flaws.

3) Should he insist on a duel, have the NPC refuse. If he attacks anyway, have him knocked unconscious and imprisoned for his crime, but have that imprisonment lead to a character hook.

For example, he is offered release from prison, and a full pardon, if he agrees to do [task] for the [king] in furtherance of [the adventure/ story].

All you've managed to do here is upset a player (multiple times) create discord within the group, and teach this player not to get too attached to his character in your story (i.e. that his PC doesnt matter, and neither does your campaign).

Instead, you've choosen an adversarial DM route, and it's poor DMing. It's even worse that you've then chosen to create a thread online to gloat about it. If your player read this, I would fully expect him to quit your campaign.

 

[Zardnaar]

What you should have done:

1) Work with him on his PC concept. Help him fluff his Hexblade weapon into a cool Trident or similar; a symbol of his rulership over the Tritons, before they were taken over by the Evil faction.

This gets him personally invested in his character, something he (at present) has no reason to do.

2) Should he have taken umbrage at the NPC in this example, ask him why his PC is so upset. Remind him of his alignment and character goals. Ask him how a duel with this NPC advances (or is in accordance) with either, or how it speaks to one of his stated character flaws.

3) Should he insist on a duel, have the NPC refuse. If he attacks anyway, have him knocked unconscious and imprisoned for his crime, but have that imprisonment lead to a character hook.

For example, he is offered release from prison, and a full pardon, if he agrees to do [task] for the [king] in furtherance of [the adventure/ story].

All you've managed to do here is upset a player (multiple times) create discord within the group, and teach this player not to get too attached to his character in your story (i.e. that his PC doesnt matter, and neither does your campaign).

Instead, you've choosen an adversarial DM route, and it's poor DMing. It's even worse that you've then chosen to create a thread online to gloat about it. If your player read this, I would fully expect him to quit your campaign.

The reason I didn't want a Triton is because they're a secret faction/menace along with it's abilities negating a few to many challenges I was planning.

Hard to be a hidden menace when there's one walking around with the PCs.

Not that I need a reason for no Tritons.

I said no to the hexblade as he was trying to cheese the two level dip thing with charisma based classes. He figured out how to do something similar with 3pp material I allow.

 

[Zardnaar]

What you should have done:

1) Work with him on his PC concept. Help him fluff his Hexblade weapon into a cool Trident or similar; a symbol of his rulership over the Tritons, before they were taken over by the Evil faction.

This gets him personally invested in his character, something he (at present) has no reason to do.

2) Should he have taken umbrage at the NPC in this example, ask him why his PC is so upset. Remind him of his alignment and character goals. Ask him how a duel with this NPC advances (or is in accordance) with either, or how it speaks to one of his stated character flaws.

3) Should he insist on a duel, have the NPC refuse. If he attacks anyway, have him knocked unconscious and imprisoned for his crime, but have that imprisonment lead to a character hook.

For example, he is offered release from prison, and a full pardon, if he agrees to do [task] for the [king] in furtherance of [the adventure/ story].

All you've managed to do here is upset a player (multiple times) create discord within the group, and teach this player not to get too attached to his character in your story (i.e. that his PC doesnt matter, and neither does your campaign).

Instead, you've choosen an adversarial DM route, and it's poor DMing. It's even worse that you've then chosen to create a thread online to gloat about it. If your player read this, I would fully expect him to quit your campaign.

He was the one who insisted on the fight to the death part.

Even double checked that he was sure.

Gladiator fights in the arena are none lethal, he insisted and the baddies have diplomatic immunity/sway to make an exception.

Not totally ruthless he rolled miserably on his new PC vs his old one so pulled the old twin brother thing now he's the same character but avenger paladin and he's redoing his flaws etc.

He's made no effort to make his background, flaws, etc actually matter or even do diplomacy with the highest charisma (20) in the party.

He was asking me to run an additional game as we were supposed to play another campaign but it keeps falling through for various reasons.

As I said LN, I don't go out of my way to kill people but my world's lean towards the tough luck dude if things when it comes to stupity.

Last death was when someone won initiative and charged into a large group of enemies by himself and they were next up and rolled multiple crits.

Learn the hard way if need be.

Did I mention he had to be told point blank not to assault a ship with a CR12 pirate of reknown on it after the party had exhausted their spells and could level up after a long rest?

They're saving up to buy a ship, he wants to bypass that which is fine up to a point. They've got access to cog but he wants a galleon or man o war.

They do exist but yeah only hundreds of soldier types and crew on them.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

@Flamestrike, at what point would you consider it appropriate for a DM to not let a PC do whatever they want and actively prevent them from dying regardless of what that is?

(Since it's the internet, I should probably clarify out that I'm actually interested in seeing where you're coming from here, I'm not just trying to argue to argue or something.)

 

[Zardnaar]

@Flamestrike, at what point would you consider it appropriate for a DM to not let a PC do whatever they want and actively prevent them from dying regardless of what that is?

This I wasn't boasting I killed him but never actually seen something like this. I've seen CN types run around like munchkins not caring about setting off traps.

I've heard about it online but not experienced it personally.

I had a Paladin around 1998 who did the occasional thing like this once in a while. Ride a horse into the underdark with continual light horse shoes.

Anyone got stats for Lemmingfolk?