D&D 5E Killed Me a Lawful Stupid Paladin

[Flamestrike]

@Flamestrike, at what point would you consider it appropriate for a DM to not let a PC do whatever they want and actively prevent them from dying regardless of what that is?

You need the context of why the player is doing the thing.

Why was this player having his PC do what he did?

I would have asked the player, why is your PC so hostile towards this NPC? What do your PC have to gain here? And what do you have to lose?

And most importantly of all, killing a PC should be a last resort in these situations. If at all possible it should be resolved as failing forwards, and used as part of the story. Killing the PC simply creates an antagonistic relationship.

 

[Flamestrike]

He's made no effort to make his background, flaws, etc actually matter or even do diplomacy with the highest charisma (20) in the party.

Why would he when you off his PCs all the time?

You're contributing to this mess. Heck, as the DM, you're the one responsible for it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why would he when you off his PCs all the time?

You're contributing to this mess. Heck, as the DM, you're the one responsible for it.

He died once. He just derp charges every session.

Races allowed phb, yuan ti Warforged, ask about anything else.

Not exactly unreasonable there when I was upfront about what's allowed.

All the others told him not to do it, I double checked and he insisted on a death fight.

He picked the fight. Went out if his way to turn a simple skull check into a combat encounter.

Also told me it's on me to make him roll concentration checks.

He probably would have won if he healed himself, AC was to high so 28 hp was good for 2-3 rounds, dealt 80/112 hp.

I did let him play any domain he liked as long as he found a deity from 5 pantheons. I did say no to an aquatic deity granting forge domain.

Didn't even listen to me when I told him rolling was fine as long as he dies it in front of me. Sent a video instead.

Doesn't listen.

 

[Flamestrike]

He died once. He just derp charges every session.

Talk to him about it. That behaviour is happening in your games, that you have control over.

 

[Zardnaar]

Talk to him about it. That behaviour is happening in your games, that you have control over.

Probably have to. One thing he was told though was.

"The right of the group to have fun outweighs your right to be an idiot"

And

"D&D is a team based game"

So yeah I've limited some things they can do but there's 5 other people who want to have fun as well.

He's a nice guy seems a bit over enthusiastic and doesn't think. Older fella as well, played AD&D.

The CN moron types got booted a few years back then got booted out if two more groups.

He's not that bad, I'll tolerate a bit before I boot people. Those 3 players basically feed off each other.

I've dodged most of the online horror stories because I don't generally play with randoms.

 

[Istbor]

They are basically imperial guard. See previous post.

It was a diplomatic mission the half elf told them they were the empires finest gladiators.

The race were Ja Din similar to kreen.

If I put a CR16 dragon into the game and I he PCs pick a fight with it I don't lower the CR to their level as they're not supposed to fight it.

They could have ignored them in the dock, didn't have to challenge to the death, didn't have to turn up to have the fight.

I don't understand what you said here as more context really. You said they were Imperial guard, the PCs or the Elvish Navy? If the latter, then why would a lawful Paladin go up against lawful agents of an Empire?

So this half-elf said they were carrying the finest gladiators on board. Okay, but why did this fight happen? What slight did the Paladin face that they chose to fight for an apology? That is what I am missing.

I am not saying to dumb down stuff if a player decides to do something stupid. But the way it was stated in the initial post was that this guy was a bodyguard of an Imperial Naval Captain. Now they happen to be one of the finest gladiators in the Empire. Okay... And the PCs didn't recognize them? Or are they that unfamiliar with the Empire and its culture?

I agree. Some of this was no doubt a decision on the player. How it came to be is important in telling if this was due to a Lawful-Stupid Paladin, or just a dumb idea by a character who happened to be a Paladin.

Right now, it still sounds like the latter. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Istbor]

I don't really see the logic in this. We don't know that this was "any old ship captain", and naval crews are certainly an area where I'd expect to see a lot of variance of NPC levels, given that they can encompass anything from the low-level merchant vessel to the epic-level dread pirate.

And nobody just sits around when they're ship's crew. Just because they're assigned to guard the captain when the ship's in port, that doesn't mean they don't have other duties when they're under sail. Or maybe the ship carries a contingent of Marines - certainly not unusual if it's a military vessel.

Sure. Just not typically something you'd have a lvl 15 (or CR5) NPC doing. Maybe you have that kind of proliferation of high level stuff in your campaign world. Strikes me and it seems like some others, as a bit odd is all.

 

[jgsugden]

Probably have to. One thing he was told though was.

"The right of the group to have fun outweighs your right to be an idiot"

...

If we tell someone they're being an idiot on these boards, we get the boot (maybe with a warning).

Take that as a hint that your behavior is bad, here. You owe him an apology, and a more constructive way to approach the situation.

Even if you determine he should not be a member of the group, you can make that change without throwing insults.

 

[Zardnaar]

If we tell someone they're being an idiot on these boards, we get the boot (maybe with a warning).

Take that as a hint that your behavior is bad, here. You owe him an apology, and a more constructive way to approach the situation.

Even if you determine he should not be a member of the group, you can make that change without throwing insults.

I said that 3 weeks ago on messenger when I gave hine rule 0.

The rules there for situations exactly like this.

Yes it exists for a reason I've had types who get others killed via deliberately being stupid.
I regard it as trolling if you keep doing it.

Quickest way to get evicted from the game.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't understand what you said here as more context really. You said they were Imperial guard, the PCs or the Elvish Navy? If the latter, then why would a lawful Paladin go up against lawful agents of an Empire?

So this half-elf said they were carrying the finest gladiators on board. Okay, but why did this fight happen? What slight did the Paladin face that they chose to fight for an apology? That is what I am missing.

I am not saying to dumb down stuff if a player decides to do something stupid. But the way it was stated in the initial post was that this guy was a bodyguard of an Imperial Naval Captain. Now they happen to be one of the finest gladiators in the Empire. Okay... And the PCs didn't recognize them? Or are they that unfamiliar with the Empire and its culture?

I agree. Some of this was no doubt a decision on the player. How it came to be is important in telling if this was due to a Lawful-Stupid Paladin, or just a dumb idea by a character who happened to be a Paladin.

Right now, it still sounds like the latter. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

The set up was this. They were approaching the harbor if Sasserine. It's a narrow opening and the Elven cutter basically assumed it had right of way.

They decided to try and beat them through into the harbour, wasn't really clear who cut who off.

They then raced them through the harbor and got the best berth zipping in front of them.

Said player demanded an apology from the captain of the ship.

The captain was escorting an unknown VIP to the Sasserine captain.

On the wharf they disembarked and the Paladin tried to pick a fight, the rest of the party was like un no. They had 12 Ja Din, two battle ogres, the captain and slaves carrying the palenquin.

The Imperium is arrogant but the party has never met an elf from the imperium before (still haven't).

Once he realized the rest of the party wasn't keen he went down the solo path route challenging the captain and asking him to apologise (not sure for what but hey).

The captain declined but offered him "you can fight one of my guards if you insist. They're done if our finest drawn from the ranks of our finest gladiators". *Chose one they're all the same".

They were there to guard the VIP. The VIP was there to issue an ultimatum which was to set up the next session and the backdrop for a potential war and privateering.

He did ask about playing an elf as well. I said it was fine just be aware they're not that popular. They're Imperialistic slavers. At best Sasserine has a dozen elves or so.

Well not all of them, as I said I modeled them after the East India Company.