Killing Trolls

[Bauglir]

I've always been a little confused by this. Does that mean that you have to deal damage equal to the troll's full hp with fire/acid, or just cauterize the wound once it's below -10?

The regeneration means that all damage bar fire and acid counts as subdual damage. The easiest way to describe how it works is by example I think:

Lets say you have a troll with 52hp.

First the fighter attacks it with his longsword and deals 10 damage.
- The troll now has 52hp and 10 subdual damage

The wizard casts a fireball and deals 20 damage
- The troll now has 32hp and 10 subdual damage

The cleric follows up with a flamestrike dealing 24 damage
- The troll now has 8hp and 10 subdual
- Since subdual > hp the troll falls unconcious

The troll's turn comes up; it regenerates, losing 3 subdual damage
- The troll now has 8hp and 7 subdual
- Subdual is now < hp so the troll can get back up

etc..

Subdual damage is handled completely separately from real damage, and the knockout occurs when the total subdual damage exceeds the total hp. Regeneration won't affect hp at all - it simply reduces subdual damage.

The end result is if you want to coup de grace a troll you'll need to do so with fire or acid damage, since nothing else actually hurts the troll - it just adds to the total subdual damage. This makes cdging a troll quite difficult (even with a flaming sword, the save DC will only be 10+1d6 which the troll is likely to make). The best strategy is to keep hitting it to outpace its regeneration and keep it knocked out while someone gets a good campfire started, then just cook away the thing's hp.

 

[Marimmar]

Well, unless the errata says otherwise, I think it is totally possible to CDG trolls.

that was just a game mechanic they added for the CRPG Temple of Elemental Evil.

you need to do normal not subdual damage to get the benefits of a real coup de grace.

The SRD says:
Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. [...]
You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits.

So according to this it is possible to CDG trolls since they are not immune to critical hits and have to make a Fort save against the damage to avoid dying.

~Marimmar

 

[Paragon Kobold]

I used to rule that they came back from drowning too.

Then I added the fiendish template...

My players eventually dropped the trolls into the river Styx. They still came back but by then they had forgotten about the fight.

 

[diaglo]

Well, unless the errata says otherwise, I think it is totally possible to CDG trolls.



The SRD says:
Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. [...]
You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits.

So according to this it is possible to CDG trolls since they are not immune to critical hits and have to make a Fort save against the damage to avoid dying.

~Marimmar

still boils down to damage done. yes you can coup de grace a troll with a flaming torch or vial of acid. but damage done by subdual ... does it count?

do critical hits with subdual weapons cause extra damage? can anyone besides a rogue use nonlethal (subdual) sneak attacks?

heck, i suck at the d02 rules so don't ask me.

i only typed what i saw on another thread on the Atari forums.

 

[MerakSpielman]

The SRD says:
Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. [...]
You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits.

So according to this it is possible to CDG trolls since they are not immune to critical hits and have to make a Fort save against the damage to avoid dying.

~Marimmar

I would allow a character to CDG a troll, but the damage rolled will be converted to subdual damage. The saving throw for the troll to survive will be 10+0, because no real damage was dealt.

 

[spectre72]

Well, unless the errata says otherwise, I think it is totally possible to CDG trolls.



The SRD says:
Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. [...]
You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits.

So according to this it is possible to CDG trolls since they are not immune to critical hits and have to make a Fort save against the damage to avoid dying.

~Marimmar

The problem is that Subdual Damage is not "real" damage.

This is kind of addressed in the FAQ on Page 19 in the combat section.

It is kind of a grey area depending upon your DM's interpritation, but after reading the FAQ we have decided that any weapon that does Non-lethal damage or does not harm a creature due to resistances is not eligible for use in a CDG.

 

[DonaldRumsfeldsTofu]

Don't trolls have Reneration 5? Unless they changed it for 3.5, all that means is that you have to consistantly more than five points of damage on an attack to kill it. What's so challenging about that?

 

[Marimmar]

still boils down to damage done. yes you can coup de grace a troll with a flaming torch or vial of acid. but damage done by subdual ... does it count?

When a troll is finished and the battle's over, we just want to move on with the game and being able to kill an unconscious troll by making a CDG is a fine way to move on.

If a DM told me that I'd have to burn a downed troll to get rid off it, I'd tell him that we burn the remains and go on as well. Anything more complicated would simply go against our way of playing.

~Marimmar

 

[maddman75]

If a DM told me that I'd have to burn a downed troll to get rid off it, I'd tell him that we burn the remains and go on as well. Anything more complicated would simply go against our way of playing.

~Marimmar

That's generally how we handle it - heck, we fought a troll last night that they brought down by throwing a flaming goblin onto him. Its not a big deal after the fight - but if you want to keep one down while a fight is still going on you're going to need to give it some fire or acid damage.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Don't trolls have Reneration 5? Unless they changed it for 3.5, all that means is that you have to consistantly more than five points of damage on an attack to kill it. What's so challenging about that?

You didn't read the rest of the thread, did you? Only fire and acid damage a trolls hit points. ALL OTHER ATTACKS do only subdual damage, not real damage.

The regeneration only restores subdual damage.

You can beat a troll until it's a gooey pulp and it will still regenerate if you don't hit it with enough fire and acid damage to actually deal it enough real damage to kill it.