Kip up

[ThirdWizard]

At the very least, I would not allow two Free Stands in the same round. There are limiting factors to free actions even, and the DM is perfectly in his right to limit this one to once per round, IMO.

Secondly, if you fail a Free Stand can you choose not to use the Move Action to stand? It sounds like you cannot, therefore, I would allow a Free Stand only if there is a Move Action free. A PC can never be sure that they will make a check. Never. Sure, the circumstances where you would fail might only come up once in a thousand attempts, but can you always be certain that this particular time isn't one of those?

 

[Hypersmurf]

It sounds like you cannot, therefore, I would allow a Free Stand only if there is a Move Action free.

If you wanted to allow the PC to attempt a free stand with no actions remaining, but still wished to penalise failure, you could house-rule that a failure costs you your next Move action.

So if I make a Full Attack while prone, then fail an attempt to free stand, I remain prone until the next round. On my turn in the next round, I've already spent a Move action on standing. I can remain prone if I wish to, but whether I stand or not, I have only a standard action remaining this round...

-Hyp.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Ironically, I have a House Rule for taking the fast mount action that states you can attempt a fast mount even if you have used all your Move Actions for the round - failure results in falling prone. Wouldn't quite work for this.

 

[Stalker0]

Isn't free stand like a DC 30? So the guy must have a +29 in tumble to do it with chance of failure. I say he's earned his cool combo, like you said, its not like he's dishing out the big damage.

 

[diaglo]

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is the root of my question: the player in question wishes to use the free-stand (thanks for the terminology correction!) as part of a 'undefeatable' trip combo. The character has 4 attacks a round with two weapon fighting and proceeds to dance, use maximum expertise, and fight defensively for a whopping big AC (around 40 IIRC). His attack bonus, of course, goes into the toilet, but is still high enough hit a touch AC more often that not. So the player attempts to trip, his AC saves him from the AoO, and he gets his attempt. Even if he fails and is counter tripped, he just stands for free using the free stand rules. While he doesn't accomplish much in the way of damage with this tactic, my big bad fighter types seem to spend an awful lot of time on the ground where thier tactical choices are few and most incur an AoO for standing.

I have no problem with the tactic, but the free stand seems to have removed all of the drawbacks from it.

can you free stand after he does all his actions? i mean you say he attempts his trip...fails.. and then is tripped in response...

to me i'd make him wait until his next turn before he free stands.

so the whole round he is on the ground... i'd surround him and attack the prone guy...

while prone doesn't he lose some of his AC? ...like 4 iirc

 

[Nellisir]

While he doesn't accomplish much in the way of damage with this tactic, my big bad fighter types seem to spend an awful lot of time on the ground where thier tactical choices are few and most incur an AoO for standing.

I have no problem with the tactic, but the free stand seems to have removed all of the drawbacks from it.

I'd suggest finding in game ways to counter the tactic, -sometimes-, and let him have his fun the rest of the time. Invest in a few dwarven enemies (stability) with enlarge self capabilities. Use more quadrupeds and tentacled grapplers. If there isn't a "stable" armor property, then make one up, and give it two or three levels - +4, +8, untrippable. Use ability-damaging opponents to lower his Dex and make him roll for the free stand.

I think the free stand is legal, but it's ultimately your call.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Shallown]

For those that think he should be able to without having the move available a Question.

Would You allow someone to try to free stand at the beginning of the round and if they failed choose not to stand having just having used a free action and not the move as the ability states?

For those that think he has invested a lot and should be able to.
Yes he has invested a lot he can take 10 on the tumble check and more or less without outside influence can free stand automatically but he also gets to take 10 and tumble around and through people and do all the other things tumble allows so this is not an instance of he hasn't earned this ability he has actually earned lots of abilities so whould he get this one as well.

For those that think Ovino should tailor encounters to stop this trip madness. Yeah he could and he does tailor some encounters to challenge the characters but how much can you tailor before it stretches the reality too much. Tailoring to stop one person in a adventuring party just makes them vulnerable to everyone else in the group. Unfortunately the Gm carries the burden of dealing with a well balanced group who adopt tactics quickly and who are experienced players. Single focus monsters/encounters die quick at our hands.

I am mostly playing devils advocate becuase the tactic and character in question is a fellow party member but since I am also a GM at heart I try to keep things from being too sick and mean for my GM.

Later

 

[Jack Simth]

Probably the simplest sqelch? Can't take 10 when threatened in the middle of combat, without a feat or class ability that specifically allows it. Outside of combat (when there isn't any particular time pressure) taking 10 is fine. Inside? No. If he doesn't have such, he can't do that.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Probably the simplest sqelch? Can't take 10 when threatened in the middle of combat, without a feat or class ability that specifically allows it. Outside of combat (when there isn't any particular time pressure) taking 10 is fine. Inside? No. If he doesn't have such, he can't do that.

Well, obviously. That's a part of the Core rules.

But I believe that the Dervish gets the ability to Take 10 on Tumble checks fairly early in its progression.

 

[Tatsukun]

(Alright, I'm tired and I scrolled to the bottom without reading all the posts, sorry if this has been said)

It sounds like quickmount (it's a move action, but if you make the skill check it's free). You need to have a move left to try it, in case you fail for some reason.

-Tatsu