Knockback rules

[CRGreathouse]

The assassin sneaks up behind his quarry... sets up his attack... and thrusts his dagger into the king's kidneys, throwing him across the room.

Does anyone else have a problem with this?

 

[Kershek]

Note that I did say "it happens if the attacker wishes it." You can do 40 points of damage and choose not to use knockback.

However, you did make a good case with the sneak attack which I hadn't considered. Perhaps you can change the rule to say that only weapon + strength damage works for knockback. Critical hits would add to it, but sneak attacks wouldn't.

The rules were made originally because they are simple to remember and easy to implement. However, I do understand that, at much higher levels, the numbers could break down and people will be flying all over the place.

Perhaps we can mitigate this with some sort of opposed roll to avoid being thrown. We could do an opposed attack roll that would seem to scale similarly to higher levels.

The damage aspect is still a problem, however, that doesn't scale. This is a result of the simplified rule. Any ideas how to fix this?

 

[The Little Raven]

Yes, it's called Awesome Blow but it has too many prerequisites, is too weak, and doesn't really have the flavor I'm looking for.

Too many prerequisites? Strength 25 is easy for a big, strong villain to have... especially one that is of size Large or greater, which is another easy prerequisite. Power Attack is a must have when you've got BAB to spare... I do agree on IBR, but it's a small price to pay..

I love using this feat to slam opponents over edges and things like that.

 

[Ferret]

So if a medium sized rogue deals 1d6+12d6(SA) with a rapier to an orc, and deals 45 damage, the blade sliding into the heart the orc flies back....

 

[Kershek]

So if a medium sized rogue deals 1d6+12d6(SA) with a rapier to an orc, and deals 45 damage, the blade sliding into the heart the orc flies back....

Please try to keep up - we already discussed this

 

[Centaur]

Why not make it a Fortitde Save. DC = Damage delt and you get a +4 to your roll for every size level difference, just like the grapple rules.

If you make your save, you don't go anywhere. if you don't, you fly back a number of feet equal to the difference between your roll and the DC. Of course, this could get realy nuts for high strength fighters with high critical multipliers.

Maybe only use the base weapon damage and strength bonus (+ power attack) for these rules.

 

[Kershek]

I didn't like fortitude save because to me fortitude is internal toughness (poison saves, endurance, and the like) and not external resistance from being thrown around. But if it seems to work, I'm not against it. I wouldn't add a size modifier to the save because size modifier is already being counted in the amount of damage needed to do the knockback.

 

[Centaur]

True, but I was thinking of eliminating your threashold as posted above. Make it realy simple. If the person is trying to induce knockback, have the target make a fort save. If he fails, he flies back, If he makes it he goes nowhere.

Maybe make it a fort save with the characters Str subed in for his con on the roll.

 

[RangerWickett]

First of all, make it a standard action, so you can only do this once per turn, and can't use it for attacks of opportunity.

Second, base it on the attacker's strength, not the damage dealt. Even worse than stabbing with a sneak attack, imagine a cleric that hits with a touch attack for Harm, dealing 150 damage. That's definitely not the sort of thing we're shooting for.

Heck, maybe just make it an opposed Strength check. If you hit, roll just like for a Bull Rush, but take a -10 penalty.

 

[Kershek]

Ok, another addition - knockback can only occur with a melee weapon

Making it a standard action will move away from the "Sauron effect," but may be necessary for game balance.