Knocked prone

[jmucchiello]

I think I'm most disappointed that they made all these changes to make combat more cinematic but didn't fix (or relegated to feats) some standard features. Any ability that knocks someone down should have a DC after it (from the giant article: on a hit, the target is pushed 2 squares and knocked prone) and the DC should be the necessary Str or Dex roll to avoid falling:

and knocked prone (DC 30)

Anyone making the strength check just does not fall. Anyone making the Dex check perhaps flips out of the way or kips up immediately.

DC would be size, str and level based (but I don't know how to guess at this for 4e, yet).

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I really, really like this idea. Any ability that knocks prone or stuns has a "saving throw" attributed to it (Athetics!), based on Skill usage. It definitely gives Skill usage a more passable and useful utility ability.

DC equal to 10+ 1/2 level of the monster. What are all of the statuses in 4E?

 

[Wolfwood2]

I think I'm most disappointed that they made all these changes to make combat more cinematic but didn't fix (or relegated to feats) some standard features. Any ability that knocks someone down should have a DC after it (from the giant article: on a hit, the target is pushed 2 squares and knocked prone) and the DC should be the necessary Str or Dex roll to avoid falling:

and knocked prone (DC 30)

Anyone making the strength check just does not fall. Anyone making the Dex check perhaps flips out of the way or kips up immediately.

DC would be size, str and level based (but I don't know how to guess at this for 4e, yet).

But that would mean there have to be two rolls to see if the ability actually works. First the to-hit roll and then the 'avoid it' check. Wasn't the idea to get away from those "check twice to see if this actually happens" situations?

Being knocked prone doesn't make you as horribly vulnerable in 4E, so I don't see why there needs to be a separate check to avoid it.

 

[Staffan]

The titan already has to hit your Fortitude defense in order to knock you down. That's your chance to avoid it.

If you really don't want to be knocked prone, play a dwarf. Then you get a save to avoid it.

 

[Wormwood]

The titan already has to hit your Fortitude defense in order to knock you down. That's your chance to avoid it.

This.

I simply don;t see the net benefit in adding a layer of complexity to such a simple system.

 

[Mort_Q]

I whole heartedly agree.

That said, what do we know about AC and REF penalties for being prone? Action cost for standing? Opportunity attacks? Anything?

The worst thing about Fourth Edition is that it made me an optimist.

Love your sig btw.

 

[Mirtek]

Didn't some preview or blog entry showed a fighter power that allowed him an attack for double damage while being knocked prone (with standing as a free action if it hits)?

I think I remember something like that. If it's an at-will, I will take it for my extra human at-will slot ASAP and look forward to any critter foolish enough to knock me prone ^^

 

[Gunpowder]

I whole heartedly agree.

That said, what do we know about AC and REF penalties for being prone? Action cost for standing? Opportunity attacks? Anything?

I think prone grants combat advantage for melee attackers, cover against range. I don't know if there are any penalties to attack though. It also takes a move action that provokes an OA to stand up.

 

[Blackbrrd]

They actually fixed the problem in 3e where getting up provoked an attack of opportunity. The problem was that you could use all your special stuff, now you only get to do a basic attack.

I would like some mechanic in the core rules for getting up without provoking an OA though.

jmucchiello: they had just what you are asking for in 3e, first you did a touch attack and then you did an opposed check. Sounded great, yeah? Well, I had a enlarged person-spiked chain-bulls strengthed-improved trip attack character trying to trip huge bears. It wasn't funny at all. (The success rate was really high, in most cases close to 90%).

With the current 4e rules you have to beat, for instance somebodies fortitude defense, which as far as I can see will work out quite well. I don't imagine we will be seeing 90% success rate to tripping anymore. Closer to 50% I believe.

 

[keterys]

Where did you get that information, Gunpowder? Particularly the 'cover' and 'provokes' parts, but the main reason I ask is because I was specifically told at DDXP that it does not provoke and I thought the DM actually looked up the rule.