Knocking Godzilla Prone

[Eldorian]

omg, a sword can get through Godzilla's armor?

And we're done, folks, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here!

 

[Maximillian]

From Customer Service:

Can an ooze be knocked prone?

In situations like this, DMs are encouraged to change the flavor of what is happening without changing the actual rules governing the situation. For example, the ooze could be so disoriented by the blow that it suffers the same disadvantages as if it had been knocked prone until it spends a move action to stand up effectively shaking off the condition.

It came up in a game I was running that a wizard used "Icy Terrain" in an area that included a flying Clay Servant. According to customer service, it seems like I should have applied the penalties for being prone to the flying creature, even though the flavor text suggests that this spell "creates a patch of ice on the ground."

Up to you whether nonsense conditions can be applied to monsters or not. I see where they're going. They want abilities to apply in all situations so that individual combats don't reduce the effectiveness of characters who've chosen particular abilities. This is why rogues can sneak attack constructs and undead now.

FWIW, I didn't knock the flying creature prone, and the people I play with agreed with that decision. We also still count every other diagonal as 2 squares, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Eldorian]

It says, encouraged, not "required". If normally I'd hip check a guy to the ground, against an ooze I'd smack it so it's locomotive bits rolled away from the ground. For your example, do whatever you want. You could say, "A down gust of frigid air quickly frosts the ground, pushes the low flier to the earth, and knocks everyone else in the area off their feet." But hey, I'm a nice DM.

From Customer Service:



It came up in a game I was running that a wizard used "Icy Terrain" in an area that included a flying Clay Servant. According to customer service, it seems like I should have applied the penalties for being prone to the flying creature, even though the flavor text suggests that this spell "creates a patch of ice on the ground."

Up to you whether nonsense conditions can be applied to monsters or not. I see where they're going. They want abilities to apply in all situations so that individual combats don't reduce the effectiveness of characters who've chosen particular abilities. This is why rogues can sneak attack constructs and undead now.

Can you, with a straight face, tell me that the human skeleton, indeed, the humanoid form, does not have any inherent weak spots? Could not the rogue target these?

FWIW, I didn't knock the flying creature prone, and the people I play with agreed with that decision. We also still count every other diagonal as 2 squares, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Good for you. I already said what I would have done.

 

[TarionzCousin]

We also still count every other diagonal as 2 squares, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Heathen!

 

[mattdm]

Up to you whether nonsense conditions can be applied to monsters or not. I see where they're going. They want abilities to apply in all situations so that individual combats don't reduce the effectiveness of characters who've chosen particular abilities. This is why rogues can sneak attack constructs and undead now.

Yeah, I'm not so keen on that take on things. I'd rather everyone be able to contribute some all the time and no one totally sidelined, but would still like to have situations where familiar tactics suddenly aren't effective, and situations where certain characters' strengths are highlighted.

I'm sure there's still ways to do that, but it requires a change in thinking.

 

[Eldorian]

Yeah, I'm not so keen on that take on things. I'd rather everyone be able to contribute some all the time and no one totally sidelined, but would still like to have situations where familiar tactics suddenly aren't effective, and situations where certain characters' strengths are highlighted.

I'm sure there's still ways to do that, but it requires a change in thinking.

Pass the ball to the players if this bothers you. Say, "If you guys want a power to work, explain to me what you do to get the effects to happen." If your player can't tell you how his spell, which makes icy ground, knocks down a flier (my suggestion was a cold downdraft), then don't let them use it. Give the player access to the flavor text if the flavor text doesn't make sense in this setting. Hell, you might even have... gasp... fun... doing this.

 

[VannATLC]

Frozen or ice-clad wings make flying pretty damn impossible.

I mean, its very similiar, in this sense to 3.5e, you examine the effect, how the effect would actually occur, then see what happens from there.

For instance, Icy terrain would totally freeze the top of a lake. But for how long? Wanna risk it?

By the same token, its going to freeze whatever is around it. the zone you target. Targetting the air is going to result in the immediate condensation of loose water vapour, on the nearest stable surface, which is going to be the wings of the flying creature.

*shrug*

 

[Family]

That 10' cube?
Yeah, it just got pr0ned!

 

[corwyn77]

Yeah, I'm not so keen on that take on things. I'd rather everyone be able to contribute some all the time and no one totally sidelined, but would still like to have situations where familiar tactics suddenly aren't effective, and situations where certain characters' strengths are highlighted.

I'm sure there's still ways to do that, but it requires a change in thinking.

That's all well and good, but, speaking as the proud owner of a 25th level rogue in a recent 3e game, I'm glad to see [immune to crit/sneak attack] gone. Too many undead/automoton/what-have-you at high levels making me useless for entire sessions or arcs.

 

[Plane Sailing]

There are a lot of powers in the PHB--and I mean a lot--that have the effect of knocking the target prone if the attack hits.

I also notice these powers have no restrictions about the type of target that can be toppled. Is there any broad rule that protects big creatures from being knocked over (other than the attack in question missing, of course)?

I guess seeing a halfling flip a colossus, an ancient dragon, the tarrasque, or what have you would be amusing once in a while, with it groping its foot and falling over like something out of a Tom and Jerry cartoon, but seeing it routinely happen in every encounter with an enormous monster would cloy quickly.

I was concerned about this, but I'm wondering whether there is an issue which is a mitigating factor - Attacks have to overcome a targets defence to knock them prone (in most cases, I guess), and bigger creatures tend to have higher Fort (and other) defences.

It seems strange to me that dwarves get the extra defence against getting shifted and knocked prone but nothing else does. I'm contemplating a house rule that anything with 4 or more legs gets the same bonus as dwarves do (and don't expect to see prone oozes or other stuff without legs or backs going prone in my games!)

Cheers