Knocking Godzilla Prone

[Ruin Explorer]

Were I to DM 4E, I'd probably make more on-the-spot calls than in OD&D.

"I knock the Ooze prone."
"Autofail."

"I knock Gojira prone."
"Autofail."

"I push the Tarrasque back a square."
"Autofail."

"I make the giant eagle slip and fall with my icy terrain."
"Autofail."

It's a new concept in play experience delivery: Exception-based DMing.

Even as someone who likes 4E and intends to run it, unless the players very very creative and compelling in their descriptions, I'd tend to go the same way. It seems... retarded... that someone could just shove a dragon or the Tarrasque around.

 

[Felon]

In the examples you use, the PC's would all be epic level before facing these monsters. You honestly have a problem with epic level characters knocking over the Tarrasque?

Feel free to replace any of the creatures with a non-epic colossal-sized monster of your choice.

The issue here is whether anything was built into the system to prevent certain monsters from being knocked prone. I've gotten some responses that dismiss and rationalize, and one or two that share the sentiment that it's a little hard to swallow. I've even gotten a supposed customer service response that tells me that oozes can indeed be knocked prone, so I'm going to move forward with treating this as another one of those areas where "simplicity in design" means not having caveats where there should at least sometimes be caveats.

Thing is, if I'm using a giant creature, I probably want it to have a certain degree of impressiveness that just isn't going to be there if it can be flopped over like anything else.

This is very similar to the 3e practice of using grease spells and spiked chains to keep balors on their backs--except in 4e, the balor doesn't get any roll to oppose the attempt.

 

[hbarsquared]

Not regarding oozes, but instead larger creatures:

Have you ever played Shadow of the Colossus? This is exactly the whole point: knocking huge tarrasque-like creatures prone before defeating them completely.

 

[Felon]

It seems... retarded... that someone could just shove a dragon or the Tarrasque around.

Realize that you are almost certain to receive a semantic analysis of the word "shove" and how to use out-of-the-box thinking to dress up the dragon being moved around the battlefield. For example, "the dragon is tricked or manipulated with psychological warfare into moving those squares reflexively". Something like that.

 

[Felon]

Not regarding oozes, but instead larger creatures:

Have you ever played Shadow of the Colossus? This is exactly the whole point: knocking huge tarrasque-like creatures prone before defeating them completely.

It rings a bell. It doesn't involve someone just whacking it once though, eh? It takes a little effort to bring it down, right?

 

[hbarsquared]

It rings a bell. It doesn't involve someone just whacking it once though, eh? It takes a little effort to bring it down, right?

Like... perhaps... a special ability?

 

[Felon]

Like... perhaps... a special ability?

Does that special ability fall under the umbrella of "whacking it once"? Do we classify using the same ability you use in every other combat as extra effort?

 

[hbarsquared]

Does that special ability fall under the umbrella of "whacking it once"? Do we classify using the same ability you use in every other combat as extra effort?

Yes.

 

[Felon]

So "routine effort" and "extra effort" are synonymous to you. Good, we've isolated our disconnect.

 

[hbarsquared]

A single bow shot knocking the tarrasque prone.