Knocking Godzilla Prone

[hbarsquared]

Encounter abilities != routine abilities
Higher level abilities != routine effort

 

[Warbringer]

If you have probems with the 'prone' thing, then a simple houserule could simply be you can not knowck prone a creature 1 or more size category bigger than you.

Paragon - Consider your size category one size bigger for this purpose
Epic - Consider yourself 2 sizes bigger.....

 

[Felon]

Encounter abilities != routine abilities
Higher level abilities != routine effort

Ah, you think we're talking about higher level abilities. The fighter gets Spinning Sweep at 1st level. The rogue gets Topple Over at 3rd. It's pretty accessible.

The issue of routineness is open to debate I suppose, but personally I think that if you can do it every time you encounter a gigantic monster, that seem a little too routine for my tastes. YMMV.

 

[Felon]

If you have probems with the 'prone' thing, then a simple houserule could simply be you can not knowck prone a creature 1 or more size category bigger than you.

Sure, you can use DM fiat to address everything. The question is do I have to in this instance, and I suppose the answer is "yes" (and there's a more oblique question of "why do I have to?"). Thing is, I'm not completely opposed to the idea of a little man toppling a big beast. We see it happen in fiction. It's just a lot more impressive as heroic feats go than toppling someone your own size. But in 4e, it's pretty much just mashing the same hotkey.

I'd really like more of a middle ground where it's more difficult but not impossible. The all-or-nothing nature of special abilities in 4e is part of the issue. Opposed checks have been thrown out. Now, when a wolf bites you in the leg, you go down every time. There's no diceyness.

 

[Plane Sailing]

IIRC there are some things that shift targets by attacks against their Fort, and other things that shift targets by attacks against their Will.

I would be relatively happy with the latter working, since that seems to be tricking the creature. It is the former I'd find harder to run with

 

[Otterscrubber]

A prone ooze? Hadn't even considered that.

What does "prone" mean if not...prone?

In our last adventure in KotS we knocked a swarm of rats prone...we went with it but we were trying to picture that in our heads

 

[Felon]

IIRC there are some things that shift targets by attacks against their Fort, and other things that shift targets by attacks against their Will.

I would be relatively happy with the latter working, since that seems to be tricking the creature. It is the former I'd find harder to run with

Good point. Command is a cleric power that knocks a foe prone by targetting Will. Suspension of disbelief is a lot less strained when physics aren't brought into the matter.

In our last adventure in KotS we knocked a swarm of rats prone...we went with it but we were trying to picture that in our heads

See, you can Command all of the rats to play dead.

 

[hbarsquared]

Ah, you think we're talking about higher level abilities. The fighter gets Spinning Sweep at 1st level. The rogue gets Topple Over at 3rd. It's pretty accessible.

Both of which are encounter, not at-will, abilities.

The issue of routineness is open to debate I suppose...

True.

I just don't see a problem because

• 1) the attack has to hit in the first place, and
• 2) there are plenty of precedents for it: Shadow of the Colossus being only one example where a single hit to a vulnerable spot (ie, encounter-ish type power) will knock a Gargantuan creature prone.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Realize that you are almost certain to receive a semantic analysis of the word "shove" and how to use out-of-the-box thinking to dress up the dragon being moved around the battlefield. For example, "the dragon is tricked or manipulated with psychological warfare into moving those squares reflexively". Something like that.

The abilities in 4E are pretty well-described. I think it's fairly clear that something that's STR vs Fort and involves you slamming the Tarrasque with your shield is y'know, shoving the Tarrasque around. Which like I said... retarded...

Like Plane Sailing, I have no problem with a mental effect misleading the Tarrasque, or even a physical effect which TRICKED the Tarrasque somehow, but with a 240lb Dragonborn Fighter knocking around the Tarrasque? No, I'm not down with that.

4E is exception-based, and sometimes baby, you gotta make some exceptions. At least Tide of Iron makes it clear it only works on monsters 1 size larger.

Also - Shadow of the Colossus can stuff itself. I've not played it, and I'm sorry, Japanese console games do not constitute "lots of examples". I'm sure it's the best game ever, but it doesn't magically cause a Str vs. Fort attack on a create 100x your size to make sense as shoving them several squares.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Realize that you are almost certain to receive a semantic analysis of the word "shove" and how to use out-of-the-box thinking to dress up the dragon being moved around the battlefield. For example, "the dragon is tricked or manipulated with psychological warfare into moving those squares reflexively". Something like that.

I like how you gave him a semantic analysis in the same post as you warning him that he would be getting some.....