Knowledge: Local?

[DonTadow]

I am one that believes K:local should be 'local'.

yes, other skills, may also be considered 'local'. Ie knowing about own religion first and then other deities from same religion and then what about other religions entirely?

I use the following table to represent this. I use it for practically all Knowledge skills, including local. From House Rules - NB: area where PC grew up could also be another area where PC takes ranks in K:local - making this a very useful skill

Knowledge: In general the following circumstance modifiers apply to all Knowledge skill checks according to how close one is to where they grew up for a majority of their life. These modifiers represent knowledge of people, places, things that originated from the given area, not necessarily where they may be encountered:
Vicinity (Examples Modifier)

Immediate locale - Home town/village, local city neighbourhood, surrounding vale, part of woods, etc. Eg: Town of Rutherford. (+10)

Home area - Rural community and surrounding farms, city quarter, part of large or whole of small forest/marsh/hills, bay area, etc. Eg: Town of Rutherford and surrounding farms and southern Ralferst Forest (in which Rutherford lies). (+5)

Home division - Duchy, barony, county, whole of large city, whole of large forest/hills/marsh, whole of and bordering areas for small forest/hills/marsh, coastline, etc. Eg: Duchy of Dalgani. (+2)

Home region or land - Country, kingdom, land division (as described in Homelands document). Eg: Brymoria. (+0)

Surrounding region or land - Country, kingdom, land division that borders upon homeland or a region where people have settled recently from homeland. Eg (using Brymoria as homeland): Borderlands, Chandalaya (east), Dalelands, Mornalduum Heights, Thaldaria (all bordering) & Crescent Isles, North Frontier, Brandon, Southern Baronies (where Brymorians have settled recently). (-2)

Near region or land - Country, kingdom, land not bordering homeland but considered near enough to encounter through trade/war etc (usually other side of bordering regions). May also apply to kingdoms that border regions where people from your homeland have settled. Eg (using Brymoria as homeland): Danirheim, Bador, Ashville, Dlactland, Cavandare, Chandalaya (west), Relvoor (all near Brymoria) & Agea, Avalin, Matusuland, Carantha, South Frontier, Lizardspine Mountains (all lands/regions bordering those where Brymorians have recently settled). (-5)

Distant or foreign land - One a character may have heard of, but has no relationship with one’s homeland. (-10)

Appologies for layout. Table didn't come over

I could easily do this using egs from another CS if that helps. This is from our home brew and uses places familiar to our players.

Some may find it complicated, but when you have a map and know the regions it works wonderfully (oh and when set out in a easy to undertand table )

Are there books in the campaigns of the people who use it local only?

I don't think I'd trust my history teacher if he only knew the history of Detroit

 

[Connorsrpg]

Ah for sure

I forgot to mention. The name of the skill would change to Knowledge (insert name of homeland/region). On is free to take ranks in other regions (and then I would treat them as home regions on the chart too).

regarding study and books. I actually assign a '+' to a book that can be used to reference. Eg: A general book on a region may provide a +5 to knowledge checks re a certain region..even better for detailed books.

Also - using the mechanic I outlined does not mean that people know nothing of surrounding areas - it just means they know MORE of their home area....which makes perfect sense to me.

The K (history) skill is a little different in that yeah, I still assume that local history would be higher than foreign kingdom's history. However, events that effect many kingdoms or are just big events, then this would not suffer from the distance modifier. Also, nothing wrong with a player choosing a focus of their historical studies, such as dwarven history of the Big Mountains, to count as a 'homeland' for modifiers. Use similar concepts for other K skills too.

 

[Jdvn1]

Bardic Knowledge covers "information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places." There's a difference.

 

[DonTadow]

Bardic Knowledge covers "information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places." There's a difference.

There are several instances where an ability covers or enhances skill checks. Bardic Knowledge is one of them.

 

[Storm Raven]

Are there books in the campaigns of the people who use it local only?

I don't think I'd trust my history teacher if he only knew the history of Detroit

The history teacher would presumably have ranks in an applicable skill, like Knowledge: History.

 

[DonTadow]

The history teacher would presumably have ranks in an applicable skill, like Knowledge: History.

But according to the logic given, he would only know about the history of his region resulting to no outside documentation

 

[Storm Raven]

Ok, with this being in the rules forum, I think we should stick to RAW. Raw says what is says.

Good, then I'm going with the skill as it is applied in the FRCS setting. Since that is the only way it makes sense and doesn't trample on the balliwick of several other skills.

I think of the skill as a geography book.

Then explain what makes the Knowledge: Local skill different from the Knowledge: Geography skill.

And obviously a person with knowledge local has read up on local cities. He'd knows how the city's run, folklore about cities, history of hte city and powersources. The better he roles the more he knows. If a person has the knowledge skill they roll it when they enter the city and that roll displays what they know about the city or how much informaiton I would give them. IF a person increases his knowledge skill as the game goes by, he has to say how he did it and mosto f the time it is by reading or studying (as most knowledge skills are gained in my game.

The problem with this interpretation is that it essentially results in the Knowledge: Local skill taking the role of several other skills - why would anyone invest in Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty, Knowledge: History, Knowledge: Geography and so on if you get it all wrapped up in one big package with Knowledge: Local?

As far as religion, how much of ascholar on religion can someone be if they only know the religion that they deal with.

First off, I didn't say that they didn't know anything about other religions, I said that they had a penalty to checks related to other religions. In any event, knowing much about one's own religion and limited amounts about other faiths would make you very much like a religious scholar of the middle ages - like say, Saint Dominic, or Saint Aquinas.

 

[Storm Raven]

But according to the logic given, he would only know about the history of his region resulting to no outside documentation

What? Your sentence doesn't make any sense. Could you clarify what "logic given" you are referring to, and exactly what "resulting to no outside documentation" means?

 

[Nonlethal Force]

To me it seems like it should be a broad skill. I know it has been said before, but all the other skills take into account all the various varieties. Say, for example:

Handle Animal. Now, a peson can't be familiar with all animal types. There isn't that much time in the world! But they can learn generalities about how animals respond and how to interact. Essentially, they are learning how to organize what is important and what isn't about all animal behavior.

Listen. We don't have Listen: outside, Listen: Urban noise, Listen: treading of feet, etc. And let me tell you, listening for a specific noise in the woods is a completely different ability than listening for a certain noise in the urban location, which is a completely different skill that listening for any noise to break the silence and deciphering what that skill is. To listen in the wild means to be able to ignore the common noises of squirrels, the wind, rustling of leaves, etc. To listen in an urban environment means to filter out everyone else' conversations and pick up the one you want to hear. To listen for any noise to break the silence takes patience, ability to breathe quietly and sit still, etc.

Disable Device: Need I go into how many devices there are out there? First off, not all traps are the same. Some are metal, some are stone, some are rope, some are wires, some are parts of all of these. You can't possibly be familiar with all of them, but we allow the skill to represent all of them.Disable device allows the player to know general information about disbling something that is inteded to work in a certain order. If we wanted to nitpick we should have different disable device checks for metal, rope, string, metal pins, rock, etc. But we don't, because it would make the game WAY too complex.

This same thing can be said for the rest of the skill checks. [Especially appraise, I mean c'mon. Or any of the knowledge checks. You can't possibly know all the stuff about arcana, psionics, the planes, religion, dungeons, the different kinds of geographies, etc.]

My theory is that the skill ranks basically give your character skill in dealing with and deciphering information and using it appropriately. The disable device checks lets the rogue analyze the lock and apply a general knowledge to a specific case. The handle animal check lets the character apply general knowledge about animals to a specific case. The appraise check lets a character apply general knowledge about worthiness of items to a specific case. Same thing with all the other skills. And same thing with Kn:Local.

See, as your characters roam about the land, they hear snippets of other conversations, etc. Things that aren't roleplayed because God that would be boring to roleplay everything your character hears. When you enter a tavern - the only thing going on isn't just what is happening to your characters, but the DM can't describe everything, either. So what makes the most sense to me is to say that a person with a few ranks in the Kn:Local check is skilled at knowing what parts of what he hears is important and what parts are just local legend and scuttlebutt. A character with Kn:Local has a better than average time figuring out what makes a town work, what are the townsfolks fears and joys (like local legends, etc). They have an easier time deciphering the stories they hear and applying it to this specific situation - whatever town they are in.

So, needless to say, I interpret Kn:Local broadly. It isn't Knowledge:Locale in my book, it is Knowledge:Local. It is not specific knowledge about a specific town ... that would be Knowledge:Locale. Instead, it means you are skilled at understanding what the primary motivations behind a city/town/whatever is. It means you understand how to pick up and use the hundreds of snippets of information that you receive every minute through your senses and you can apply them to understand your present location better. That's Knowledge:Local. That makes it a much more useful skill, and it puts it in line with the rest of the skills, too.

If you make people use Knowledge:Local as a skill for a specific place, you are doing Knowledge:Locale. If you let people use this skill as the ability to interpret their present surroundings, that's Knowledge:Local.

 

[Storm Raven]

So, needless to say, I interpret Kn:Local broadly. It isn't Knowledge:Locale in my book, it is Knowledge:Local. It is not specific knowledge about a specific town ... that would be Knowledge:Locale. Instead, it means you are skilled at understanding what the primary motivations behind a city/town/whatever is. It means you understand how to pick up and use the hundreds of snippets of information that you receive every minute through your senses and you can apply them to understand your present location better. That's Knowledge:Local. That makes it a much more useful skill, and it puts it in line with the rest of the skills, too.

No, that's the Gather Information skill. The problem, as I have stated before, with the various very broad interpreations of the Knowledge: Local skill is that they effective subsume other, already defined skills into the Knowledge: Local skill, making Knowledge: Local into a "superskill" and obviating several other skills. Your interpretation would effectively obviate the Gather Information skill.

If you make people use Knowledge:Local as a skill for a specific place, you are doing Knowledge:Locale. If you let people use this skill as the ability to interpret their present surroundings, that's Knowledge:Local.

Knowledge skills are about knowing things, not interpreting things.