Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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dave2008

Legend
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.
There might have been increasing diversity in the pool of designers, no issues there, but the quality of products over the last couple years has been the worst I've seen in over 20 years. Totally not saying it is diversity's fault but the quality has been just terrible.
Then you should try going back 30 or 40 years!

To be honest though, I don't agree with you. I'm not saying it is the best content, but I have gotten more use out of 5e products (include the last 2 years) than any other edition of D&D.
 

dave2008

Legend
I took it to mean all the SRDs. But yes people often forget 4e had one. I think because it was under the GSL.
I've been told (I don't remember) that the 4e SRD was not anything like the 3.5 or 5.1 SRD. It was many a list of references to the PHB, DMG, and MM. So, as it stands it is not a very useful document. They would have to make a new one from scratch I think and they are not going to do that (I don't think they will at least).
 
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Jer

Legend
Supporter
Pretending 4e doesn't exist yet again...
I took it to mean all the SRDs. But yes people often forget 4e had one. I think because it was under the GSL.
The 4e SRD wasn't a real SRD though. The GSL SRD was basically a list of terms and rules on how to cite page numbers from the core D&D 4e books. They'd have to put actual work into sanitizing the 4e PHB, DMG, MM and to turn it into a real SRD, whereas the 3.5 SRD is a real SRD that just needs a new license.

EDIT: (ninja'd!)

EDIT 2: If anyone is curious, here's the old 4e GSL pages still stashed on archive.org. You can see how useless the SRD would be for actually publishing anything even if they did OGL it. Pages on which tables you're allowed to refer to and how, and then 80 pages of names you can use.

 
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Haplo781

Legend
The 4e SRD wasn't a real SRD though. The GSL SRD was basically a list of terms and rules on how to cite page numbers from the core D&D 4e books. They'd have to put actual work into sanitizing the 4e PHB, DMG, MM and to turn it into a real SRD, whereas the 3.5 SRD is a real SRD that just needs a new license.

(ninja'd!)
Well let's be honest here, 4e is basically worthless to WizBro. I can see them going "Here's the entire Rules Compendium, PHB 1-3, MM 1-3, DMG, and Adventurer's Vault, minus PI. Have fun."

At a bare minimum the existing SRD would unambiguously allow people to develop a 4e system for Foundry, a proper win11 compatible character builder, etc.
 

AstroCat

Adventurer
Then you should try going back 30 or 40 years!

To be honest though, I don't agree with you. I'm not saying it is the best content, but I have gotten more use out of 5e products (include the last 2 years) than any other edition of D&D.
I really enjoyed the first several years of 5e content, I though the arcs and art was good stuff and we played a lot of it. Even did AL at the cons for years! But the last few have been awful in comparison, my opinion only of course. So yeah quality has been a really bummer for me, and the art has taken a serious down turn, just embarrassingly bad! Check out the legacy Volo art vs the "current monster" art for good examples of what I'm referring to.
 

I will repeat what I said to Retreater:

You never should have trusted them. Nor should you trust Paizo, or KP, or any other corporation. If you trust another RPG company to the apparent extent you trusted WotC, then you will eventually be in for another shock.

Step away from the company, but keep the community. I think that is the best option for your mental health (not that I should be making mental health recommendations).

That being said: I think the wat Kyle explains what happened, could indeed have happened from a non-malicious space. Not saying it is true, just that it is plausible (particularly from my experience with corporations).
It is clear to me that some people find this incredibly personal which of course they shouldn’t. WoTC clearly screwed up but I also think a lot of people on these forums were holding them on a pedestal of some sort that no corporation could ever live up to long term.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
I had no idea who the interviewer was prior to this, but the initial "ground rules" of keeping things positive per usual makes me want to check out their other content if that's indeed their approach to content creation.
Teos does give questions and take a positive track in all interviews. That's very typical for Mastering Dungeons. He is also someone who has done a lot of contract work for Wizards, including a product that Kyle mentions in the interview (Acq Inc).

But giving the questions, or at least themes, ahead of time is not something that should be frowned on. It's a legitimate way to conduct interviews when you want the answers to have answers rather than "I'll find out and get back to you."

Each of these various interviews will have different approaches. That's good. Because covering a variety of issues is important. No one journalist or influencer is going to cover everything. That's impossible. By spreading a wide net of diverse creators who are both insiders and outsiders is the best way to get as close to a complete story as possible.

We'll also be seeing a more prepared Brinks as time goes on. Slight changes in his tone and wording are inevitable. I expect there will be dozens of these and then there will be follow up by the very few journalists who actually are paid to do this and have editors.

Over the next month we'll learn more about the inner workings at Wizards D&D division in real time than ever before.
 

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