D&D 5E L&L: Mike Lays It All Out

- Groups that play without feats add +1 to Ability scores when otherwise a feat would be gained. Looking at this from a flavor standpoint, I don't understand it. Why is my fighter becoming stronger?

I always read it as your fighter is getting stronger because she spent her time in physical exercize that increases muscle bulk. She might have spent that time reading and training her mind, and developed a +1 intelligence bonus. Or spent her time focussing on developing a particular technique. I actually like it, because it mechanically allows a character to directly train her attributes as opposed to her competencies. If I were a fighter that relied on muscle power, I'd be doing a lot of push-ups to gain this; there needs to be a mechanic that allows for development of attributes!
 

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I don't personally have any problem with even-numbered ability scores giving little benefits (they do give benefits, just most of them aren't numerical but only a few marginal cases are).

I see them from a different perspective:

- if every time you increase an ability score you get a flat +1 you can be pretty sure that most players will tend to always increase the same one primary ability score until max; like it is now, players are encouraged to look for other abilities to boost or just look at feats for something more interesting

- the benefits of ability score increase are on average actually pretty large... feats are getting larger to be on par, but still that +1 is going to be applied to potentially so many things that I'm ok if you get it once but I don't think it's unfair if next bump is going to cost you twice as much

- I am also fine with the fact that if you really want your primary score to hit the ceiling, you have to take it slow and sacrifice the proverbial egg today for the chicken tomorrow

All these are just my personal feelings based on being frankly quite tired by players obsessed by always having the highest ability scores possible.

- Groups that play without feats add +1 to Ability scores when otherwise a feat would be gained. Looking at this from a flavor standpoint, I don't understand it. Why is my fighter becoming stronger? I have no problem wrapping my head around the fighter learning a new technique represented by a feat but a mandatory ability increase just rings false.

It's a little bit like choosing between attending martial arts classes or going to the gym.

Fighter A studies one fighting technique more carefully and dedicatedly, and gains a special ability (feat).

Fighter B just trains a little bit of everything without being selective, and gains a spread benefit (Str boost).

It actually even resonates well between the dedicated/casual player and dedicated/casual character :)
 
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So many things here that I've been speaking of and wishing on for months now. I love it.

Backgrounds: This is precisely the system that I wanted them to follow when they talked about backgrounds almost a year ago. If you're a Pirate... you don't need to have 4 specific "skills" written down on your sheet to tell you what you are good at as a pirate-- you just need a little bit of imagination and a DM that can adjudicate. Especially because you shouldn't necessarily be trained in ALL facets of a particular "skill" just because you're a pirate. As a pirate, are you good at Intimidation? Absolutely. Against EVERYONE? Not a chance. That Naval Commander deals with pirates all day long... your feeble attempts at snarling and showing off your row of gold teeth shouldn't have any real advantage against that hardened naval officer. But when you use "skills", theoretically that pirate should get his bonus for having Intimidation. However, just using Backgrounds... the DM can make the ruling that yeah... your CHA check to try and intimidate the lord mayor's daughter will work with a bonus... but your CHA check to try and intimidate the naval officer doesn't work at all.

I LOVE that!

Classes: It appeared as though Mike touched upon the idea that Fighters and Rogues would have special class abilities separate from the Feats system. Which is exactly what I was clamoring for in my "get rid of feats as a universal mechanic thread"... the idea that both of those classes should have their own separate system for maneuvers and tricks that put them on par with the cleric and his spells and the wizard and his spells. It sounds like this might actually be happening. If it does, THANK GOD.

I saw absolutely no reason why as a Fighter you needed a Specialty of a Defender *and* a Fighting Style of a Protector, or the Specialty of a Sharpshooter *and* a Fighting Style of a Marksman, or a Duelist/Swashbuckler, Reaper/Slayer etc. etc. etc. Two different subsystems trying to accomplish the same exact thing, layering on an overlapping fluff that did very little to help describe who your fighter was. And what was even worse was the idea that you might have a Duelist/Slayer and a Swashbuckler/Reaper. What the heck does that mean in the fiction of the game world? Are they the same? Are they different? What's the difference?

By changing the feat system up so that you don't have a bundle of them together with a fluffy name that basically duplicates what the fighter should have with his own maneuvers system, can only be seen as a boon in my opinion. Or bundles which duplicate what the rogue should have with his own tricks system. Give the fighter and rogue their own mechanical system for performing the actions which they are supposed to do, to match what the cleric and wizard get with spells.

And to recreate the simple fighter and rogue a la BECMI? Just make sure there is at least one maneuver package and one tricks package that *is* so bleedingly simple (while still balanced) so that the Basic game can assign it to them automatically and the player never has to think or worry about it.

Feats: I still await to see what exactly these "new feats" look like in order to determine whether or not they are really useful and do not add needless complexity for me. I *suspect* that for me personally, they will just add in an additional layer of abilities over and above the ones I'll get from Race, Class (plus Style/Scheme/Deity/Tradition), and Background (Lore/Proficiency/Benefits) that will ultimately prove unnecessary. Just looking at the Cleric alone, and all the Class Features I get from Channel Divinity and my Deity selection PLUS my list of spells... to then add in some lore, proficiencies, background benefits, and a handful of racial abilities on top of that... having ANOTHER series of special bennies seems like overkill.

Maybe I'll find myself completely wrong once the new packet comes out about feats? Dunno. But I'm very anxious to see it. :)
 
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I think I'm in love.

Feats you can trade for a simple +1 to ability? Yes, thank you. Prestige/Paragon stuff rolled in? You mean like the first playtest specialties, like the Necromancer? Am I in Heaven?

Skills reminds me a lot of 2e (even if not my favorite edition), with proficiencies being optionals. I do feel like there must be a way to measure one's skill against another's, without all things being tied to ability score alone (as in the pirate captain fleeing the commander of the King's fleet).

In-class choices feel like sub-classes (2e kits? good IMO). I suppose they also fill the niche of class-exclusive feats.
 

In regards to the suspended game reward of the +1, what if odd ability scores had more currency? They don't need the "+1 to rolls" jump that odd numbers have, as this would shake up the system, but if some meaning could be assigned to the odd values, this would solve the problem.
Why not just change the modifier rule? Make it so that the modifier is (stat-10), instead of (stat-10)/2? It's still bounded to a +10 due to the "max 20" rule, and it makes giving up any ability score for a feat a tough decision each and every time.
 


Like the feat ideas.


Cannot be more disappointed by the skills. It illicited a strong WTF?! from me.
The awkwardness is temporary. It's an issue now because few people are exclusively playing 5e, so they're jumping between it and other games so their language hasn't caught up to the edition change. The same thing happened early in 4e when people called for Spot instead of Perception and Knowledge check instead of Arcana. Not using familiar language, such calling the bonuses Skills, would help immensely.


Plus the awkwardness of having a new player confused when a DM calls for a Spot check is a non-issue. As that player has likely been taught by that DM or is sitting at a table five feet from an experienced DM who can help.


Designing the game around avoiding a short term awkwardness is just, well, silly.
 

I'm displeased with the direction of skills.

First, that skills are now "boolean", and you can't make a check for some things without the appropriate skill. No chance to be heroes is boring, and not what I'm looking for. I want anyone to be able to try anything, even if the odds are stacked against them.

Second, skills can not only come from background. I'm learning to cast new levels of spells, but I can't learn how to tie a knot in a rope? My characters grown and change over the course of a campaign, they aren't static molds set up before play and never changing.

Third, Mike's comment about the full skills module causing the DCs to climb so the DM needs to be careful is a failure based on their own Goal #2. It's one game. The various modules can add complexity, but there's supposed to work together. One module breaking skill DCs doesn't do that. I think something they lose sight of their stated mission and instead are trying to design several games at once in the same book(s).
 

I'm learning to cast new levels of spells, but I can't learn how to tie a knot in a rope?
There'll be a feat for it ;)

Third, Mike's comment about the full skills module causing the DCs to climb so the DM needs to be careful is a failure based on their own Goal #2.
Agreed, this is one of the worst things I've read about 5e, ever.
 

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