D&D 5E L&L November 4th Warlock Design

MJS

First Post
They shouldn't shy away from the pacts being Demonic. IMO it should be an evil-only class that makes a demonic pact. For good, you have paladins and clerics. Neutrality has druids and such.

Put him standing in a pentagram as well. A little Satanic scare is good for business.
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
They shouldn't shy away from the pacts being Demonic. IMO it should be an evil-only class that makes a demonic pact. For good, you have paladins and clerics. Neutrality has druids and such.

Put him standing in a pentagram as well. A little Satanic scare is good for business.

Sometimes good people make deals with bad things. Sometimes out of foolishness. Sometimes out of desperation. I believe Harry Dresden makes such a deal, if you're a fan of those books.

Johnny does too:

[video=youtube_share;cDm_ZHyYTrg]http://youtu.be/cDm_ZHyYTrg[/video]
 
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MJS

First Post
Ah yes, good point.
Or neutrals - I remember a guitar player in a movie who, about selling his soul to the Devil, replies, "I wasn't using it, anyway."

I do hope to see some authentic demons and occasional nudity in 5E, but perhaps that will more aptly wait for the 6th.
 

tuxgeo

Adventurer
I liked the idea of the Warlock, and appreciated them adding it in 3.5Ed...but I didn't like its execution. However, its among my faves if not outright #1 of the 4Ed classes, largely because of how they fleshed it out- IOW, more than one kind of Pact with which to make he's bargain.

I was intrigued by the Warlock in 4E, but I didn't like the combination of restrictions and zaniness.
• Your At-Will power is chosen by your Pact? That's -- restrictive.
• Fey Pact lets you Teleport at 1st level? That's -- zany.
• "Flames of Phlegetos?" What does that have to do with general pacts? Is it only available to those who have formed a pact with Phlegetos?

Of course, I still haven't seen the 5E Next version of the Warlock. I'll reserve judgment on that until it comes out. I have hopes; but the Bard is currently looking a lot better -- at least in the latest playtest package. (What does it say about a potential adventuring class when someone claims that the Bard looks better?)
 

Dungeoneer

First Post
I was intrigued by the Warlock in 4E, but I didn't like the combination of restrictions and zaniness.
• Your At-Will power is chosen by your Pact? That's -- restrictive.
• Fey Pact lets you Teleport at 1st level? That's -- zany.

That's par for the course, actually. Eladrin could also teleport at 1st level. Certain races could fly at first level. Gnomes could turn invisible at first level. 4e didn't hold back from giving players interesting abilities at first level.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I was intrigued by the Warlock in 4E, but I didn't like the combination of restrictions and zaniness.
• Your At-Will power is chosen by your Pact? That's -- restrictive.

Well, ONE at will was chosen by your pact- which to me makes 100% sense- the other by the fact of your being a Warlock who preferred ranged or melee combat.
• Fey Pact lets you Teleport at 1st level? That's -- zany.

It may have been a tad powerful.
• "Flames of Phlegetos?" What does that have to do with general pacts? Is it only available to those who have formed a pact with Phlegetos?

For the most part, you could take any power you qualified for based on level.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
They shouldn't shy away from the pacts being Demonic. IMO it should be an evil-only class that makes a demonic pact. For good, you have paladins and clerics. Neutrality has druids and such.

Oh, but the, "I have a dark past but am now trying to do good" trope is too solid to pass up. I have no problem allowing characters to struggle with the conflict this implies.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
They shouldn't shy away from the pacts being Demonic. IMO it should be an evil-only class that makes a demonic pact. For good, you have paladins and clerics. Neutrality has druids and such.

Put him standing in a pentagram as well. A little Satanic scare is good for business.
Honestly, unless the power source or casting mechanism is fluffed as being derived from a source of cosmological "good", I'd rather see evil options for all the classes. An evil cleric or evil druid should be terrifying.
 

DreamChaser

Explorer
How would you feel about the sorts of warlocks Kamikaze_Midget describes here?

None of those great examples required ever making a pact with any specific being.

Well, the wheeling and dealing with fae folk does sound pactish, but even those that doen't create a scenario where the source of the power is a two-edge sword with great role playing potential. As a DM I would -- case by case-- approve "pacts" like these. The binding pixies could bring down the wrath/judgment of an archefey. Same with steeling a book from the Summer King. I think power thief is a valid concept that can be absorbed into this class (more easily than any other caster).
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Hmm, let's see.
Sounds like a fey pact warlock (actually reminds me of the flavor from the playtest warlock: "No, I'll tell you what the rules are, Baalzebul!").Sounds like classic Wizard (conjurer/summoner) stuff. Unless you mean he gets these powers from the devils (in which case, how is that not a pact?). Someone who learned how to use arcane magic by reading books? Sounds like a Wizard. I don't know if I'd even call that a class. Sounds like some dude who found a cool magic item. If the item infused the character with innate magical powers, I'd say that's a type of sorcerer. If the character learned to cast spells by studying the item, that sounds like a type of wizard. Or if it's more of a back-and-forth between the dude and the item, that sounds like a pact the warlock is making with the item.

See, for D&D in general, I'm of the opinion that there doesn't need to be just one, solitary, unique, lone way to embody a given archetype. I'm a "three kinds of vampire" kind of guy. Wizard. Warlock. Magic item. Class. The lines are blurry and vague and it doesn't really matter who does one thing and who does another. Just because someone gets power from reading a book doesn't make them a wizard. But maybe they are. And maybe they just have a magic book as a cool magic item? Sure. All valid ways of doing it.

This is part of why I'm a fan of really specific classes, too. It makes it very clear that the class isn't meant to represent EVERY character that gets their power from a book, just these very specific characters/books/whatever.
 

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