Lack of Fast Heroes (rant)

Truename · Feb 5, 2010

I dunno. The elven druid in my game ran 30 squares in one round last session. Seemed pretty fast to me.

(50 yards in 6 seconds--not quite world-record material, but he's only level 1. Give him time. B-)

)

Mengu · Feb 5, 2010

Camelot said:
Also, Mengu, what feat lets your half-elf grant everyone initiative? I know it grants a bonus to Insight, but I'm confident you didn't just misread that.

Group Insight - You grant allies within 10 squares of you a +1 racial bonus to Insight checks and initiative checks.

jester_gl · Feb 6, 2010

Personally I don't really see the swashbuckler as a leader. They always seems to be loner, hugging all the glory for themselves when in a party.

As dex based leader go, I would probably see an archer bard, or simply a rogue with the Guildmaster PP. He shares his action point and his sneak attack die with the rest. That is what I would call a dex-based leader.

N0Man · Feb 6, 2010

There's only 4 classes out of 24 that can have Dexterity as their primary stat?

It's funny... but it just so happens there are 6 stats, and if 4 classes out of 24 can have a primary stat of Dexterity, it seems to me that Dexterity is represented exactly in a normal distribution.

There are also 6 classes that can emphasize Dexterity as a secondary or tertiary stat.

Besides, reducing Dexterity to speed isn't really accurate. It's kind of like reducing Charisma to attractiveness.

Dexterity is not only agility and reflexes, but also accuracy, hand eye coordination and balance.

You also have to get into fast at what. You might imagine "rogue" when you think "fast", while I imagine "elf barbarian".

Anyway, there seems to be a reasonable amount of Dexterity to go around, not only in Primary stats but in secondaries as well. A rant is not really warranted.

Starfox · Feb 6, 2010

N0Man said:
A rant is not really warranted.

If it was warranted, would it be a rant?

Some ideas for class concepts based on Dex:

Swashbuckler - Striker (exists sort of as rogue) or Defender
Arcane Swashbuckler - Striker (and yes, I do miss this class)
Martial Artist - As a striker, defender, or controller
Bard - Leader or controller
Trickster Rogue - Controller
Air/Water elementalist - Controller or Leader

Regicide · Feb 7, 2010

The stats mean nothing to me in 4E. They are six numbers that are paired up and have no real-world meaning. CHR to hit people with a sword attack? Do W+INT damage? Meaningless. Someone that is so feeble they can not physically even swing a sword can still stick a golem with it for massive damage. I can't visualize 4E combat, the numbers mean nothing to me. Pinning an ooze. A cripple in a wheelchair has a higher AC than someone in plate because the cripple has a high INT. Can't see it. Someone dying on the floor and the warlord shouts at them to get up and suddenly they're not dying. Nope. Makes no sense. Stick the numbers in, move the figures on the grid, toss some dice, drink some beer.

DracoSuave · Feb 7, 2010

Regicide said:
The stats mean nothing to me in 4E. They are six numbers that are paired up and have no real-world meaning. CHR to hit people with a sword attack? Do W+INT damage? Meaningless.

MAGIC SPELLS? THEY CAN ONLY USE BOOKS NOT SWORDS AND SUCH!?! IGNORE TRADITIONAL LORE AND ARCANA!

Someone that is so feeble they can not physically even swing a sword can still stick a golem with it for massive damage.

Minimum score is 8... 8 is not as feeble as you describe. Please describe this character you are refering to.

I can't visualize 4E combat, the numbers mean nothing to me.

Sounds like a personal problem.

Pinning an ooze. A cripple in a wheelchair has a higher AC than someone in plate because the cripple has a high INT.

How does one make a cripple using the character gen rules? Straw man argument. Fallacious.

Can't see it. Someone dying on the floor and the warlord shouts at them to get up and suddenly they're not dying.

Watch more action movies. Guy gets shot, his buddy peptalks him into getting back in the fight. Happens a lot in very macho action films.

Nope. Makes no sense. Stick the numbers in, move the figures on the grid, toss some dice, drink some beer.

Sense is subjective. Makes perfect sense to me, because I don't try to plug in situations that the rules are never meant to describe, i.e. the afformentioned cripple, or someone who cannot lift a sword.

Neonchameleon · Feb 7, 2010

Regicide said:
The stats mean nothing to me in 4E. They are six numbers that are paired up and have no real-world meaning. CHR to hit people with a sword attack? Do W+INT damage? Meaningless.

Int for sword attacks is quite easy. It's the guy who analyses his foe looking for weaknesses and instead of forcing his way through by battering people hard finds the one weakness in that type of armour. Charisma for attacks on the other hand is all about psyching out the enemy, convincing him you are going to attack one way, having him parry the feint, and then cutting him open while he is off balance.

Just because you couldn't do things in D&D previously doesn't mean there isn't a cinematic way of approaching it that makes it make sense.

Someone that is so feeble they can not physically even swing a sword can still stick a golem with it for massive damage.

That is theoretically possible. If you aren't using any sort of point buy - and roll a triple (or more likely quadruple) one on Str. I.e. not an issue.

I can't visualize 4E combat, the numbers mean nothing to me.

I guess that's a reflection on your ability to visualise things. Especially as a fighter with Tide of Iron as an At Will and so literally drives his target back across the room is, to me, far more realistic and easy to visualise than someone who stands there like a lemon and just chops at his enemy and can not under any circumstances force them back.

Pinning an ooze.

You could grapple an ooze in any edition with grapple rules. *shrug*

A cripple in a wheelchair has a higher AC than someone in plate because the cripple has a high INT.

Um... Show me the maths that allows this please. Especially as the wheelchair would probably mean that someone was granting combat advantage. (Hint: The highest AC you can get with Int is if you are wearing hide armour and start with an Int of 20 (i.e. superhuman) and that can only ever match plate).

Can't see it. Someone dying on the floor and the warlord shouts at them to get up and suddenly they're not dying. Nope. Makes no sense.

Watch a few more action movies sometime. 4e runs on "Holywood Physics". Now you can object to that if you like. But that's a much more nuanced issue than your current objections.