Is he spoony?
Lack of Fast Heroes (rant)
- Thread starter Starfox
- Start date
Why are there no sneaky leaders?
Looking things over, the OP has a point, if a badly expressed one.
There are no leaders with Dex as a primary stat.
There are no leaders with Dex as a secondary stat.
And, while we're at it, there are no leaders with Stealth as a class skill.
Sure, yes, most types of leaders lead from the front, or call out their orders in a loud voice, or whatever. But when you've got a question like, say "who should lead this strike team of special forces guys", you end up with an off-stat multiclass (eg, an 18/18 multi with with weak special effects, like a cleric multiclassing into rogue) or a striker multiclassed to a leader, wheras there's no reason you -couldn't- have such a leader (in fact, there have been several leaders that could have gone this way and didn't--Presicent bard could have been dex rather than YA Wis/Cha leader; and the skirmishing warlord has no reason she can't use Dex as the new Warlord secondary rather than yet -another- leader using Wis as primary or secondary).
But "speed" isn't the issue here; It's sneakiness (and to an extent the other Dex skills, Thievery and Acrobatics. But the party isn't rewarded for everyone having those skills like they can be for all having Stealth, and at least Thievery and Acrobatics appear on the skill list for some leaders (well, one each; Bard and Artificer)).
I'll note that Dex certainly is singled out here -- every non-dex skill appears on at least two different Leader skill lists.
Looking things over, the OP has a point, if a badly expressed one.
There are no leaders with Dex as a primary stat.
There are no leaders with Dex as a secondary stat.
And, while we're at it, there are no leaders with Stealth as a class skill.
Sure, yes, most types of leaders lead from the front, or call out their orders in a loud voice, or whatever. But when you've got a question like, say "who should lead this strike team of special forces guys", you end up with an off-stat multiclass (eg, an 18/18 multi with with weak special effects, like a cleric multiclassing into rogue) or a striker multiclassed to a leader, wheras there's no reason you -couldn't- have such a leader (in fact, there have been several leaders that could have gone this way and didn't--Presicent bard could have been dex rather than YA Wis/Cha leader; and the skirmishing warlord has no reason she can't use Dex as the new Warlord secondary rather than yet -another- leader using Wis as primary or secondary).
But "speed" isn't the issue here; It's sneakiness (and to an extent the other Dex skills, Thievery and Acrobatics. But the party isn't rewarded for everyone having those skills like they can be for all having Stealth, and at least Thievery and Acrobatics appear on the skill list for some leaders (well, one each; Bard and Artificer)).
I'll note that Dex certainly is singled out here -- every non-dex skill appears on at least two different Leader skill lists.
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Alukane
First Post
Hi, I'm new here and I'm italian so excuse me for my bad english...well I'd only want to say I play an artificer, and to me he's a typical fast hero (maybe I confuse the meaning of it), even if his dexterity is only 13 . He's an Eladrin (so I could take Stealth as trained ability) and he fight with a longsword and a parrying dagger, wearing a light armor. Maybe he will not shift up and down on the battlegrid but it's not his job. He have to fight shoulder to shoulder with the defender, buffing and healing him...
It seems to me the Swordmage is an incredible fast hero! The assault swordmage build has in mobility his real strength...I don't think dexterity is a prerequisite for a fast hero. He can be faster thinking before the other. Or because he has an innate sixth sense.
It seems to me the Swordmage is an incredible fast hero! The assault swordmage build has in mobility his real strength...I don't think dexterity is a prerequisite for a fast hero. He can be faster thinking before the other. Or because he has an innate sixth sense.
I've used an NPC in the past who was just a little insane and thought that archery could be combined totally with magic. So, you ended up with things, like arrows of healing, which were really great for healing party members at long ranges. This would be counterbalanced with other arrows, like the Arrow of Detect Good/Evil, which had to be fired into it's target to work. If the gray fletching turned white the target was good. If it turned black the target was evil. The arrow would do normal damage to the target. There were people that were very interested in his collection of arrows.
Hawkeye
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Welcome to the site!
Alukane
First Post
If I understand it correctly, the OP uses terminology from "d20 Modern", where all the things you describe is bundled together as the so-called "Fast Hero", which does not have to have anything to do with movement speed... thus the confusion.
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Saeviomagy
Adventurer
You got that right.
And Saeviomagy got this right too!
Maybe the basic problem for me is that the classes are so shoehorned in 4E - if you want to play a Dex/Cha character, you have to find a Dex/Cha class. Trying to play another class with a Dex/Cha build is pretty much futile. It might not have been great in earlier editions either, but in my ideal game it would be viable if not optimal. Barring that, I could really see some more Dex and Dex/Cha classes, especially ones that are not strikers.
Nah, the real problem is that the designers decided that the warlord should be a strength primary class, closing any possibility of a martial leader who isn't a hulking, muscled, heavily armored brute. Personally I would have gone with a choice of str or cha as primary, with int as secondary, which would have opened up a lot of concepts.
Right now it looks like I might end up asking my DM if I can pick up bard and reflavour the powers to be martial (and less wankey).
Starfox
Hero
Aye, that's where the term "Fast Hero" for a Dex-based character came from.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
Hip hip Hooray!
Hip hip Hooray!
Hip hip Hooray!
Sorry, nothing useful to say that wasn't already said by someone else.
