[Lakelands] Six For Adventure

Raven Crowking said:
OOG: If you are communicating to a group of people who are in the general vicinity of another person, and you are trying to let your friends understand you, but not the other person, the skill that applies is Innuendo. What is Horsom's Innuendo? Hence, what sort of Listen does the miller need?


RC
OOC:

First off, I'm not contesting your ruling. Selwark has heard Horsom's comments about the rats. No problem.

Having said that, here are my thoughts then I'll leave it there:

The Innuendo skill would apply if Horsom was using innuendo to disguise his conversation. He's not: he's using volume. If a person is trying to listen in on a whispered conversation, I would suggest a Listen check vs. a DC of 15? 20? Using the Innuendo skill to obfuscate the whispered conversation (thus increasing the DC of the Listen check, or forcing first a Listen check then an Innuendo check) is an interesting idea though.
 

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Raven Crowking

First Post
Ulorian said:
OOC:

First off, I'm not contesting your ruling. Selwark has heard Horsom's comments about the rats. No problem.

Having said that, here are my thoughts then I'll leave it there:

The Innuendo skill would apply if Horsom was using innuendo to disguise his conversation. He's not: he's using volume. If a person is trying to listen in on a whispered conversation, I would suggest a Listen check vs. a DC of 15? 20? Using the Innuendo skill to obfuscate the whispered conversation (thus increasing the DC of the Listen check, or forcing first a Listen check then an Innuendo check) is an interesting idea though.



OOG: Glad to hear you're not contesting my ruling. ;)

Obviously, the idea here is not to be a "stab of a needle," but obviously someone trying to be quiet does not always succeed, nor is the difficulty of hearing them a set value. It depends, at least in part, on the circumstances of the conversation, and on the perception of the individual involved. The party is not a tight group set aside from the miller. In order to be heard by his companions, but not heard by the miller, Horsom has to guage roughly what he thinks the miller will hear and understand.

A whispered conversation 15 feet away is not quite the same as whispering in the vicinity of someone whose fate you may well be deciding. The miller certainly has incentive to be paying attention!

Innuendo might not be the best skill to choose, but it seemed closest in terms of what the character is trying to do. Without any other skill to fall back on, this would be a Wisdom check, which, in Horsom's case, is the same thing. I might be willing to accept Bluff as an alternative, or at least something that allows a synergy bonus, because one can assume that Bluff includes the idea of avoiding attention (i.e., distraction).

In any event, it is obvious to Horsom that his intent failed as soon as the miller speaks. I explained my ruling only to prevent the assumption that the miller had maxed out ranks in Listen for some reason. :uhoh:

It doesn't really affect what happens next. Obviously, though, if you disagree with my reasoning, then by all means make your counter-argument. I won't be offended. Since this is a circumstance that might come up in the future, it's better for all concerned to be on the same page! :)




Wolfheart said:
"the truth of the origins of the spirits will be revealed soon enough. Answer my fellows question, what did the spirits tell you about the manticore? What did the spirits tell you to do with the bodies of the children? How long have thespirits been talking to you? Loose your tongue, miller, you owe as much to the families of the sacrifices. They deserve to know the circumstances of their childrens death's." Dain's dander was beginning to rise, again, and it was all he could do to keep back from the miller and to keep up the facade of being the composed inquisitor.



"There is more than one voice in the mill," Salwerk Miller says, eyes downcast. "It is the cold, old voice of which I speak. It said that the Staff of Winter had been broken." He looked up. As he spoke, the words came faster. It was as if a floodgate had been released. "There are fey, strong Faerie Lords yet, in this world, who may manifest their will. The Old Bone Man had been tricked of his Staff, and it had been broken. The Dead could feel it break, the coldness in their bones. There had to be a sacrifice, there had to be blood, to restore the balance. To contain that which had been released!"

The villagers murmered. Some nodded. There had been reason for the sacrifices they had made. The horror of making such a sacrifice without need was too horrible to consider.

Then Amalric stepped forward.

"This world is rife with gods," he said. "But the Seven hold our fealty and allegiance. Not because of their power -- great though it may be -- but because, of all the gods, we know that the Seven love us. They protect us, and guide us. They shelter us when they are able. They are on our side." He looked at the crowd, meeting the eyes of individuals as he spoke. "Well we know there are other powers, some older and stronger than the Seven. So there is a chance that the miller is right, and had he not acted, the winter would never end."

The villagers murmered, reassured. But Amalric did not intend to reasure them.

"Even so," he continued. "Even if the world itself should wither and be lost for our refusal, there are powers we should never aid. Never do the bidding of. And you" -- he pointed at the miller -- "you revelled in your secret knowledge."

Amalric looked at the miller, forced the man to meet his gaze.

"I asked these men to look upon you with pity, for the man you once were. Mellador would have us show mercy, even to once such as you. If I were to show you mercy now, it would be only the mercy of the swift death for which you begged. At last I see you clearly, Salwerk Miller. I see how far you have fallen. That ritual you performed, those children you sacrificed -- it was not enough to roast them, was it? It was your sin that called this beast to us." Amalric indicated the manticore with a sweep of his arm. Then he hissed at the miller, accusingly: "You partook of their flesh."

The crowd murmered angrily.

The miller grovelled. "You don't understand. Everything I've done...."

"Everything you have done, you say, you have done to protect your family. Was every name on the ballots your wrote? Or were your children never at risk?"

The miller looked away. The crowd grew uglier.

"Answer me!"

"No," the miller said. It was almost a whisper. "I had to protect them....."

"My Branda died," someone said. It was clear that, if it were not for the adventurers and the priests, the miller would have been lynched on the spot.

"You have given yourself to these heroes to be judged," Amalric said. "So be it. But you are still excommunicate, and accursed among men. If they find pity enough to let you live, go far from this place. We will tolerate you no longer."

As he turned to leave, Brother Hengist caught his arm, and leaning in, spoke softly and urgently.

"Forgive me," Amalric said to the lay brother. "I am no saint, and I am sick at heart."

He turned back and addressed the adventurers. "I leave the miller for you to judge," he said. "Kill him, or take him to Selby, or release him as you will. Or give him to his neighbors, and let them settle their debts."

The crowd murmered, a restive animal, eager to lay hands on the miller. Amalric addressed the miller, and the crowd. "Rats or ghosts, we can no longer allow this evil to reamin among us. On the morrow, we must tear the mill down, and scatter its stones. Whatever dwells within or beneath it must be expunged."

"No!" the miller cried. He threw himself upon the ground and wept.

Sparing him not even a backwards glance, Amalric entered the church. The crowd surged forward, calling for blood. "Give him to us! Give him to us!" The cry was taken up by young and old alike.

Brother Hengist stepped forward and spoke urgently to the closest adventurer, who happened to be Glom.

"No!" he cried. "Do not set justice aside so easily. Whatever evil this is, it is feeding upon the village. Act with justice or mercy, but not with blood lust, or you will tip us all over the edge!"
 

maddmic

Explorer
Kregor for the first time in a long time, felt sick to his stomach. He turned his head down. It was as he had feared. The miller, among other things, had never entered his own children into the lottery. He had eaten the children's flesh as well, this was not expected. He moved towards where the miller kneeled still. Silently he began praying. 'My Lord Gragnor. I know now what I must do. It is not of malice that I approach this task, nor with joy. If the miller is left to these people, they will kill him and possibly face punishment for such a crime. I cannot let that happen. You have sent me here to protect these people and I shall do so with this very act. I will send Salwerk to you so that he may be judged by a being higher than any in this world. A being that knows what his true motivations were for his deeds. I give this man's sould to you to decide what shall become of him.'

As he ended his prayer he stood over the miller. Unlimbering his bastard sword, he spoke the only words apropriate at the time. "May Gragnor have mercy on your soul." He then swung his sword low, aiming at the base of the millers neck.

OOC:
Kregor's intention is to end the miller's life. I have given the others ample time to interject or block the blow if they fell the need, but this is Kregor's course of action.
 

As Kregor reached for his sword, Horsom froze in horror. Horsom had killed many times in his young life, but always in combat. He knew that the miller deserved death for casting the children of others to the maw of the Old Bone Man while protecting his own. Still, this execution.. so cold-blooded. But justice must be served, and this was far kinder than what the mob had in mind. Horsom closed his eyes and let Kregor continue with an action he knew that he himself could not have carried out.

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OOC: If the miller's family needs to be protected from the mob, Horsom will see to it.

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OOC: I still think a Listen check was the way to go. Here are a few more arguments to add to my previous ones. Hearing a conversation is one of the sample uses listed under types of Listen checks, even (making out the details of a normal conversation is DC 0). Eavesdropping is also one of the examples listed in the skill description. In light of this, I would certainly say that the difficulty level of hearing someone is a set value.

I understand what you're saying; I think you were assuming I was holding this conversation over the miller's head, while I was assuming I had moved at least a few feet away. Assuming the miller is right there with us, Bluff/Innuendo would have a greater effect on whether the miler can understand what is being said, although even in this case, the major factor should still be a Listen check.

FYI: Innuendo is a Trained Only skill.
 

Raven Crowking

First Post
Ulorian said:
OOC: I still think a Listen check was the way to go. Here are a few more arguments to add to my previous ones. Hearing a conversation is one of the sample uses listed under types of Listen checks, even (making out the details of a normal conversation is DC 0). Eavesdropping is also one of the examples listed in the skill description. In light of this, I would certainly say that the difficulty level of hearing someone is a set value.

I understand what you're saying; I think you were assuming I was holding this conversation over the miller's head, while I was assuming I had moved at least a few feet away. Assuming the miller is right there with us, Bluff/Innuendo would have a greater effect on whether the miler can understand what is being said, although even in this case, the major factor should still be a Listen check.

FYI: Innuendo is a Trained Only skill.



OOG: The miller required a Listen check. The question is not, "Does the miller need to make a Listen check?" but rather, "How is the DC for the Listen check set?". I.e., is it an opposed check, and if so, opposed to what? Or is it a set value?

I took into account that at least parts of the group were speaking to the miller at the time, which means that they are close enough for normal conversation (or, in some cases, closer) even if it wasn't a normal conversation.

The whisper is meant to be heard by Horsom's companions, who are not distant from the miller. This requires some judgment (consciously or not) on Horsom's part.



EDIT: You are correct in thinking that I had not taken into account the fact that Innuendo is a "Trained Only" skill. Innuendo, I assume, was first included in the game to take the place of specialized languages like Thieves' Cant from earlier editions. In 3.5, Innuendo becomes a function of Bluff, and thus can be used untrained. In either event, an untrained Wisdom check is essentially what Horsom received to set the miller's Listen check DC.
 
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Raven Crowking

First Post
maddmic said:
As he ended his prayer he stood over the miller. Unlimbering his bastard sword, he spoke the only words apropriate at the time. "May Gragnor have mercy on your soul." He then swung his sword low, aiming at the base of the millers neck.



As he swung, Kregor heard the miller whisper, "Thank you."

The crowd of villagers cried out with the blow, a roar of mingled voices eerily reminiscent of the manticore's. As the miller's head struck the ground, it was as though a wave of hostility washed over the onlookers and then subsided. Shoulders slumped. Some wept. None, however, called the act unjust. Even those who had been closest to the miller seemed to understand the necessity of Kregor's action.

It did not take long for the villager's attention to turn to the stone cottage near the mill. Horsom followed them, to protect the miller's family if necessary. The cottage, though, showed all the signs of having been hastily deserted.

If nothing is done to stop them, it is clear that the crowd will burn the cottage...although it is stone, this would burn the posts, the thatching, and the interior, possibly causing one or more walls to collapse.
 
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A whip-thin, hook-nosed young man struggled with a flint to light a tar-soaked torch, a mad glint in his eye. He paused to wipe away a lock of stringy hair from his forehead. He was egged on by an equally skinny young woman, her voice a croak to Horsom's ears due to the ugliness of its urgings. The stolid archer looked over the assembling mob, with their hoes, axes, and torches, thirsting for more violence.

Whip Thin crowed with delight as the torch finally caught flame. Horsom grabbed it from him and leapt onto a nearby barrel. The young couple howled in outrage, but Horsom ignored them. "HALT!" he bellowed to the assembling throng, as he raised the newly lit torch aloft. "The beast is dead and so is the miller.. but this isn't over. The Church has tasked us with ridding the manticore and discovering whence it came. To do that, we have to investigate the miller's home and his mill. Once we've left, burn what you will. But until then.. STAY AWAY FROM THIS HOUSE AND THIS MILL. Or it's me you will answer to."

As Horsom slowly scanned the crowd with a steely glare, he felt some shame at the lie he had just told. The Church had tasked the companions with ending the manticore's threat, not discovering its origins. It saddened him somewhat that his greatest motive for preserving the miller's cottage was his curiosity regarding its contents.

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OOC: RC, I agree with your assessment re: setting the DC for the Listen check. I'll be clearer in my description next time. Good observation on the Innuendo skill - I never looked at it as a replacement for Thieves' Cant, alignment tongues, et al.
 

Samuel Leming

First Post
During the confusion during the miller's execution, Maldordo will sneak away from the crowd and his fellow adventurers. He will then leave Kell's reach by whatever route lets him move unseen. From there he will head back to Selby.

OOC: Sorry, I'm out. Bye.

Sam
 

maddmic

Explorer
As kregor saw themillers lifeless body slump to the ground, he looked away. "I pray that I have done Gragnor's bidding."

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As the villagers deal with the passing of the miller, Kregor Picks up the man and his head. He places the miller in the same cart as the manticore. He then looks for Amalric and brother Hengist. "I ask that you protect the body of the miller as well as the body of the manticore. I must go to the miller's house to ensure that things do not get out of control. I intend on letting the village burn the manticore tonight, but would like to provide proper rites for the miller and his son. It is my belief that no matter what the person did in life, they must be burried or burned in accordance with Gragnor's doctrine. Since you most likely wish that these two not be burried in the soil of this town, then I will defer to your wishes and burn them on a pyre tonight in a proper ceremony. This will prevent the villagers from desecrating their graves once I leave. The miller is being judged now for his transgressions against this community. There is no sense in doing a diservice to his mortal body which could be cursed if not dealt with properly."

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Once Amalric and brother Hengist have agreed to Kregor's request, he hastily follows the rest of the party to the millers residence. He arrives just in time to hear the end of Horsoms plea to the people. To ensure that all understand the situation Kregor bellows. "Indeed. Do as this man says. Once we are done here, this land is yours to do with what you will. Until then, you will be given the manticores body tonight so that you may burn away all your fears in a ceremony headed by Brother Amalric."

He then approaches Horsom and places a hand on his shoulder. "I hope you understand that I had to complete the task that was laid before me. These people could've been punished for killing the miller should some lawman intend to do so. It is my charge that I protect them. I felt that it should be I who ended the miller's life and free these people from their hatred. I have been looked upon unfavorably all my life and am acustomed to wandering about the land with no place to call my home. None of these people should have to face that." With that, he then moves about ensuring that the villagers disperse and helps "investigating" the area.



OOC:
Sorry to see Maldordo leave.
 

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