Lame Prestige Classes

[Zweihänder]

There is not a single class that can't be made fun of from the right angle. Also, there is not a single class that can't be seen as very good and useful from the right angle.

Legacy Champion. Bad from every angle. If I remember correctly, he's a weaker fighter that's forced to take certain feats. Whoop-dee-doo.

 

[MerricB]

I like to be well-versed in the classes of the game, (as I was in 1E and 2E) and it has annoyed me that there are so many classes that I'm not as experienced with.

I want to experience it all and I know I won't be able to - that's the basis of my frustration. I can't wrap my brain around all of the possible classes to really figure out what combo or combos would give me the greatest satisfaction from playing the game.

And you think increasing the number of feats tenfold will make it easier to understand?

 

[moritheil]

And you think increasing the number of feats tenfold will make it easier to understand?

I don't read his statement to indicate that he's concerned with ease of understanding at all. Instead, he's apparently concerned with his experience of everything.

 

[DaveMage]

And you think increasing the number of feats tenfold will make it easier to understand?

Many prestige classes use the same benefits. For example, sneak attack. I know the sneak attack "feat". I have no idea how many prestige classes USE the sneak attack feat.

If you tell me a class has an ability, it's alot easier to grasp (for me) than to say you're playing a "Super Delver". What the hell is a Super Delver? What (in its entirety) does that mean? If you've told me you've added "x" ability, that's easier to adapt to than a whole new class.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Prestige Classes should not be used solely for "Power Up" of being better than the base class you had before in every meaningful way (which sadly a few have fallen into the trap of).

Except that you blame frenzied berserker of being such a class, which it isn't. I can't imagine most barbarian characters that I've seen wanting to take even a single level in it. If you want someone who totally goes of his nut and massacres everything nearby, then it's your cup of tea. Most barbarians don't do that, believe it or not.

 

[MerricB]

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Yes. I just don't agree.

Prestige classes provide a much better ability to create balance than feats do.

You also make the assumption that a prestige class is only about the special ability(s) you gain each level. It isn't: the package includes hit dice, skill points, the skill list, base attack, etc. The actual number of levels of the PrC *also* factor in.

The Eldritch Knight PrC is a case in point. There are prerequisites of 3rd level arcane spells and proficiency with all martial weapons.

The first level does not give spell progression, but does a bonus feat. It has d6 HD and +1 BAB. This isn't something of either the Wizard or the Fighter.

The second through tenth levels are identical: +1 BAB, d6 HD, +1 arcane spellcasting level.

However, the class doesn't have an 11th level! It's something important to note: if you want further progression of +1 BAB and +1 spellcasting, the EK can't give it to you.

The skill list for the class is also different from both the Wizard and Fighter skill lists.

Conceptually, you could build this with feats. However, the reality of it would be something extremely clunky: the Hit Die and Skills would be replaced; assuming you came at it as replacement for a Wizard level, then the BAB would be replaced. Oh, and the saving throws as well would be modified!

Now, perhaps you could throw out the entire class system of D&D and go to something a bit more like GURPS or HERO. However, at that point you lose one of the core strengths of D&D: the archetypal class system. Apart from making balancing easier, and the class abilities more transparent to the players, the class system is extremely easy for newcomers to learn!

Cheers!

 

[DaveMage]

No, I don't want to get rid of classes.

I just want to get rid of prestige classes that could be replaced with feats or special abilites added to a base class.