Unearthed Arcana Latest Unearthed Arcana Introduces Rogue & Ranger Archetypes

New UA (1/16/2017): Ranger and Rogue

The new UA is up, you can see it here:http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/2017_01_UA_RangerRogue_0117JCMM.pdf

 

[Charles Rampant]

Wasn't that just a rules artifact in the Grappler feat?

 

[bganon]

Do you find you encounter some of the same problems when a Druid Wildshapes into a Large creature like a Brown Bear?

Honestly haven't had Druids - but bears don't wield weapons. Or have opposable thumbs, even. Most of the mechanically relevant stuff the bear form could do is laid out in their stat block.

How do you deal with the Enlarge spell?

The Enlarge spell specifically states that the weapons grow too, and gives a value for the increased damage. The result is PCs don't need to think about grabbing new weapons. It's a well-written effect - it lays out relevant mechanical consequences. Guardian Soul doesn't.

In the end it could just say "you receive the benefits of the Enlarge spell along with these additional effects", and that'd be pretty straightforward to adjudicate. But that's not what they wrote.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Having rules text that lets you avoid arguments with players about weapons and whatnot is indeed a Good Thing. It's very easy for players to get excited about 4d6 greatswords or whatnot, and get quite annoyed and aggrieved when they are forbidden it; just like it is very easy for a DM to be worried about balance and the daft mental image of carrying around 10ft long greatswords, and get annoyed at being made out as the bad guy when (s)he forbids it. Regardless of who is right, both sides are likely to be annoyed at the outcome. So the way that Enlarge sidesteps the issue by saying up front 'here is how your weapon damage increases' is really good, and I think something that should definitely be incorporated into any new feature that has a similar effect.

 

[seebs]

02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf
04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf
1_UA_Artificer_20170109.pdf
2016_Fighter_UA_1205_1.pdf
2017_01_UA_RangerRogue_0117JCMM.pdf
M_2016_UAMonk1_12_12WKWT.pdf
UA5_VariantRules.pdf
UA_Bard.pdf
UA_Cleric.pdf
UA_Druid11272016_CAWS.pdf
UA_Eberron_v1.1.pdf
UA-Feats-V1.pdf
UA_ModernMagic.pdf
UAPaladin_SO_20161219_1.pdf
UA_RevisedRanger.pdf
UA_Rune_Magic_Prestige_Class.pdf
UA_Waterborne_v3.pdf

What I think really defines the UA column is the naming scheme used for the files, which allows you to consistently identify which order they were in (02, 04, or 5), their posting date, their approximate posting month, or something else, and the way that "UA" is always the start of the name or found somewhere in the middle of it, and sometimes has an underscore.

This attention to detail has really defined the whole Wizards web experience for me.

 

[OB1]

The Enlarge spell specifically states that the weapons grow too, and gives a value for the increased damage. The result is PCs don't need to think about grabbing new weapons. It's a well-written effect - it lays out relevant mechanical consequences. Guardian Soul doesn't.

In the end it could just say "you receive the benefits of the Enlarge spell along with these additional effects", and that'd be pretty straightforward to adjudicate. But that's not what they wrote.

Having rules text that lets you avoid arguments with players about weapons and whatnot is indeed a Good Thing. It's very easy for players to get excited about 4d6 greatswords or whatnot, and get quite annoyed and aggrieved when they are forbidden it; just like it is very easy for a DM to be worried about balance and the daft mental image of carrying around 10ft long greatswords, and get annoyed at being made out as the bad guy when (s)he forbids it. Regardless of who is right, both sides are likely to be annoyed at the outcome. So the way that Enlarge sidesteps the issue by saying up front 'here is how your weapon damage increases' is really good, and I think something that should definitely be incorporated into any new feature that has a similar effect.

I'm not following you here. Just because the enlarge spell specifies what happens to your weapon, how do you rule if they want to carry around a 4d6 greatsword to use when they are enlarged (assuming they throw it to the ground before being enlarged and then pick it up after, because otherwise it would still be too big for you)? Since the guardian doesn't state that, it means that the weapons you are carrying aren't enlarged and therefore don't do the additional 1d4 damage.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Well, because if they do that, then when they pick up the larger-than-normal Greatsword it simply does 2d6+d4 damage, as the spell states. In other words, there is already a method for 'what happens if I try to use a huge weapon' right in the spell text.

 

[Al2O3]

Wasn't that just a rules artifact in the Grappler feat?

There was a rules artifact in the feat (I can't find it since my book fell apart and was replaced) but there is also the actual rule.

"The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach."
Start of second paragraph of Grappling, page 195 of PHB.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using EN World mobile app

 

[OB1]

[MENTION=32659]Charles Rampant[/MENTION] I agree that a creature who has been enlarged has the weapons it is carrying enlarged and that those do and extra 1d4 damage. But what if the enlarged creature picks up or carries around a weapon one size to large for it to use when enlarged as is being discussed for the Guardian? If on their person when the spell is cast, the 4d6 Large Greatsword would become a 4d6 + 1d4 Huge Greatsword, and still wouldn't be usable by the PC. If they throw it on the ground during the transformation, they could pick it up as a Large Greatsword at 4d6 but I would rule that they don't get to use their proficiency bonus on attacks, since they are not proficient with Large Greatswords.

This is the exact same ruling I would make with a Guardian if they tried the same trick. The only difference is that when the Guardian grows, her equipment doesn't grow with her and thus doesn't get the 1d4 bonus damage like the spell does. That makes sense to me both in crunch and fluff, and so I don't think it requires a change.

 

[bganon]

I'm not following you here. Just because the enlarge spell specifies what happens to your weapon, how do you rule if they want to carry around a 4d6 greatsword to use when they are enlarged (assuming they throw it to the ground before being enlarged and then pick it up after, because otherwise it would still be too big for you)? Since the guardian doesn't state that, it means that the weapons you are carrying aren't enlarged and therefore don't do the additional 1d4 damage.

Guardian Soul doesn't say your armor grows either, so do you destroy it every time you use the feature? I'd say obviously not since that would make it pretty useless - which means the designers are assuming something. But I can't read their minds to know what other things they assumed I should understand about how it works.

And the point is not to avoid ever having to make a DM ruling. The point is to make DM ruling an uncommon case, rather than something I'll have to do right away the first time the feature is used. Enlarge essentially answers the FAQs so I don't have to, but of course it doesn't cover every situation. Guardian Soul doesn't even address the obvious questions.

 

[OB1]

[MENTION=60886]bganon[/MENTION] Agree it's a bit vague and could use a clarification similar to when a druid changes form, but the intent I am reading is certainly that you do not gain benefits similar to the enlarge spell. It only affects size and reach.

But how does Enlarge answer the question of using weapons from creatures of the new size you are?