Lawfull Good Paladin and Tax Collecting...sorta

[Allanon]

A player in my Planescape campaign wants to have his Paladin join the Fated. Which is one of the factions in Sigil. Now for those unfamiliar with the setting and the Fated (or Takers as they are most commenly called) I've listed below their beliefs and general attitude.[/color]
Would you allow this? I've gently advised him that a Lawful Good Paladin doesn't combine with this faction and suggested to him that he could be a spy for one of the other factions (tough roleplaying times ahead if he chooses this) or just choose another faction. But would it be right to deny it. Am I too strict in the good part for lawful good? Suggestions are most welcome.

http://www.zachshuford.com/kriegstanz/fated.html[/url]
The Fated have an odd name, as factions go, since they believe in the exact opposite of fate. They say everyone has the potential for greatness - the key is going out and seizing the multiverse by it's horns, and there's no point in whining about things if they don't go your way.
Ever heard the phrase that possession is nine tenths of the law? Well, the Fated don't believe it. Instead, they say it's all of the law. The multiverse belongs to who can grab his share of it, and make himself into the best person he can be. There's no point in wishing for a better life, they say, you've got to make it yourself. Those that fail have no one to blame but themselves. There's no point in feeling sorry for them, it was their own fault for being weak.

Many others regard this as a cruel and callous philosophy, which is why they're often called The Heartless by others. The Fated, for their part, say that there is compassion, but even it has to be earned. The only sure way to hold on to something is to be strong enough to make sure others can't take it away from you, not by whining about your lot in life.

Of course, not everything can be taken with strength. Friendship, happiness, respect - all of these have to be taken not with strength of force, but with strength of self.

In Sigil, the Fated make their home at the Hall of Records, where the ownership of all things are recorded, and the Fated administer to the taxation of Sigil. On the planes, they fit in well with the rough-and-tumble residents of Ysgard

 

[CCamfield]

Personally, I think I'd have the same reservation as you. "The multiverse belongs to who can grab his share of it" suggests that taking something from another (arbitrarily or for yourself) is perfectly fine; the person who couldn't keep it obviously wasn't strong enough to deserve it. That's might makes right, which I don't think is a "good" attitude.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I think I would but be sure he knows the code.

Might can make right, if the deeds are performed.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd also have trouble making a paladin into a Taker. Doing so would require some tricky roleplaying.

If he insisted, I'd warn him that you'll be holding him strictly to the tenets of the paladanic code. This way there will be no surprises when he transgresses due to greed.

 

[LiKral]

According to the description of the Fated in the Factol's manifesto, they just don't accept Lawful Good members. I agree with this. They are just too 'heartless' to want to help people without hope of worldly gain, as Paladins have to.
If he joins anyway, I think he'll soon be falling!

 

[Allanon]

According to the description of the Fated in the Factol's manifesto, they just don't accept Lawful Good members. I agree with this. They are just too 'heartless' to want to help people without hope of worldly gain, as Paladins have to.
If he joins anyway, I think he'll soon be falling!

I'm with you here, and thanks for the reference to the factols manifesto. Forgot to check there, it indeed states that they do not take on lawful good members so that sorta solves the problem. Since the consensus being that it ain't possible or would be extremely difficult I'll just advise him to consider something else, maybe make him a hardhead instead, not that that won't create a whole new set of problems in it's own right, heheheh .

 

[Tonguez]

Hang on Guys what about

Friendship, happiness, respect - all of these have to be taken not with strength of force, but with strength of self.

Despite what Factol's manifesto a Paladin could emphasise the Strength of Self aspects and follow the Paladins creed without trouble.

Not every Paladin has to be Mr Do-Gooder Socialist Feeder of the Poor
Without getting political Capitalism and Libetarianism are about going out and taking what you need. Capitalist Education programmes that teach children to be self-reliant and the whole "give a man a fish, he has food for a day; teach the man to fish and he has food for a lifetime" are 'good deeds' which fit with a Strength of Self philosophy

Or more specifically

The multiverse belongs to who can grab his share of it, and make himself into the best person he can be. There's no point in wishing for a better life, they say, you've got to make it yourself

The Paladin would need to have tight reins to ensure he was making himself into the best person he can be without transgressing the rights of others

unless of course those others are forces of evil to be Smited by his righteous hand!

 

[Piratecat]

Tonguez, I'd argue that's more of a chaotic good attitude instead of lawful good.

Hey, there's an idea! If you use Unearthed Arcana, they have rules for CG paladins (paladins of freedom) in there. That would work.

 

[Allanon]

Tonguez, I'd argue that's more of a chaotic good attitude instead of lawful good.

Hey, there's an idea! If you use Unearthed Arcana, they have rules for CG paladins (paladins of freedom) in there. That would work.

OOHHH..., now to convince him to sponser me a copy of Unearthed Arcana.

"Sure you can play a Paladin Taker, only you'd have to be a chaotic paladin and thus we need a new book, Unearthed Arcana. So how would you like to pay cash or creditcard "

mmm... somehow I don't think my chances are all that great .

 

[NewJeffCT]

A player in my Planescape campaign wants to have his Paladin join the Fated. Which is one of the factions in Sigil. Now for those unfamiliar with the setting and the Fated (or Takers as they are most commenly called) I've listed below their beliefs and general attitude.[/color]
Would you allow this? I've gently advised him that a Lawful Good Paladin doesn't combine with this faction and suggested to him that he could be a spy for one of the other factions (tough roleplaying times ahead if he chooses this) or just choose another faction. But would it be right to deny it. Am I too strict in the good part for lawful good? Suggestions are most welcome.

I would definitely call this Chaotic Good - it is quite Libertarian in its point of view, and a paladin is supposed to be there for those that can't help themselves, to fight for the weak & downtrodden, defend the widows & orphans, etc. Telling them to suck it up and do it yourseld doesn't always work - other than Harry Potter, not too many orphaned babies can defend themselves.