Leadership score question...

[Mr. Draco]

When calculating the leadership score for a PC monster with class levels, do the ECL of the race count as levels? i.e.- if the character has a Cha bonus of +2, and an ECL race of +5, and 10 levels, is their Leaderrship score 17 or 12?

 

[The_lone_gunman]

I would say the ECL does not count towards his leadership score. However, depending on the monster, I would probably give him a bonus similar to the "Has a stronghold" bonus if the beast has a lair, and the "Leader has high prestige" if he is a great beast such as a dragon or some such.


TLG

 

[Draxus the Tainted]

I would use HD instead of it's ECL. Because doesn't HD essentially mean the same as level?

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

I would use HD+Character levels for the leadership score...

 

[JCLabelle]

I'm not so sure about HD's, gives a high advantage to packs of meat while disadvantaging creatures whose power relies more on their special abilities than their high HD's.

 

[dcollins]

I would also use HD in place of monster levels (not ECL).

According to the Core Rules (DMG p. 24), "The ogre begins at 4th level (because she has 4 Hit Dice)", etc.

 

[kreynolds]

I use ECL myself, but hey, to each his own, even if his own is wrong. See "packs of meat" comment above for more info on why you shouldn't use HD.

 

[Grazzt]

ECL is only used to determine the equivalent level of a monster/character in relation to other "normal" PCs. For all intents and purposes it does not affect leadership, caster level, etc.

 

[kreynolds]

ECL is only used to determine the equivalent level of a monster/character in relation to other "normal" PCs.

Partly true. ECL also represents how powerful you actually are, not just in comparison to your fellow "normal" party members, but also to the whole world around you. An ECL +4 character starts out with enough XP to be 4th level because he is indeed treated as a 4th level character to start.

For all intents and purposes it does not affect leadership

I think it does, for the reasons I stated above. Also, when you choose a +4 ECL race, you are effectively of that many character levels. You have the XP to prove it. What you do not have, however, is the number of hit dice equal to your ECL. Which is fine, because hit dice have nothing to do with ECL, and they also have nothing to do with Leadership.

caster level,

Why would it though? ECL, character level, and monster hit dice, have nothing to do with caster levels anyways.

 

[Grazzt]

Partly true. ECL also represents how powerful you actually are, not just in comparison to your fellow "normal" party members, but also to the whole world around you. An ECL +4 character starts out with enough XP to be 4th level because he is indeed treated as a 4th level character to start.

Not quite. An ogre, for example, is ECL +5, but check the example on page 24 in the DMG. That tells you when the monster PC can enter the game. The ogre begins at 4th because it has 4 HD. Thus, according to the example, the ogre starts with just enough XP to be 4th level, not 5th. ECL only tells you when you can insert the guy into the game, not what level it starts at.

So- if you have a race that is ECL +4 and only has 2 HD, you can insert it into the game when the party is around 4th level but your monster PC only gets XP for 2nd level and starts the game at 2nd level. Again, page 24 in the DMG.

I think it does, for the reasons I stated above. Also, when you choose a +4 ECL race, you are effectively of that many character levels. You have the XP to prove it. What you do not have, however, is the number of hit dice equal to your ECL. Which is fine, because hit dice have nothing to do with ECL, and they also have nothing to do with Leadership.

Except that the monster's HD count as "monster levels." (page 24 in the DMG). So the monster's HD (or monster levels) should be included in the calculation for Leadership.

Why would it though? ECL, character level, and monster hit dice, have nothing to do with caster levels anyways. [/B]

Ah- poor choice of words on my part perhaps. In any event, I do not believe ECL affects Leadership at all.

For example, take a minotaur (ECL +8) sorcerer, 8th-level, Cha 14 (yeah- I know, stretching it, but what the hell )


Now- this guy has a character level of 14 (monster levels + class levels). Check the DMG page 24 ("A creature with class levels plus monster levels, such as an ogre, has a character level equal to his monster levels plus his class levels.").


Ok- since HD count as "monster levels" he has 6 monster levels (or HD) and 8 levels of sorcerer.

Using the Leadership calculation of levels + Cha modifier, our guy has a base Leadership score of 16 (6 monster levels + 8 sorcerer levels + 2 Cha bonus).

ECL has no bearing on that. The minotaur (ECL +8) starts as a 6 HD monster and adds 8 class levels. Thus, it is a 14th level character.