Leap Attack feat & Monsters?

[Iku Rex]

Which would be good because otherwise you'd get 4x (100% more of 2x) with a two-handed weapon. No thanks.

You really think 6x is more balanced?

 

[Machiavelli]

Woah... where did 6x come from? I want THAT feat, mommy!

 

[Iku Rex]

Woah... where did 6x come from?

Power Attack with two-handed weapon: Extra damage equal to twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

Leap Attack with two-handed weapon: Tripple "the extra damage from Power Attack".

End result: 6x the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

 

[Amazing Triangle]

Power Attack with two-handed weapon: Extra damage equal to twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

Leap Attack with two-handed weapon: Triple "the extra damage from Power Attack".

End result: 6x the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

Whoa is this right? My great sword fighter might be using this more often

 

[Iku Rex]

Whoa is this right? My great sword fighter might be using this more often

It's right as written, but I believe the intent of the errata was to make it 4x instead. (Just like the frenzied berserker's Supreme Power Attack ability - see the CW errata for an example.)

 

[frankthedm]

Power Attack with two-handed weapon: Extra damage equal to twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

Leap Attack with two-handed weapon: Tripple "the extra damage from Power Attack".

End result: 6x the number subtracted from your attack rolls.

No, Iku-san, you forget the Great Rule of Multiplication.

Multiplying
Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).

When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).

 

[Iku Rex]

No, Iku-san, you forget the Great Rule of Multiplication.

No, I did not.

At no point do more than one multiplier apply to an abstract value. The values being multiplied are "the number subtracted from your attack rolls" (doubled as part of the regular Power Attack calculation) and "the extra damage from Power Attack" (tripled with the Leap Attack feat). They are not the same value.

Likewise, "the number subtracted from your attack rolls" is effectively hextupled (6x) on a critical hit with a triple damage crit two-handed weapon.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The way I read it, Leap Attack gives up to 3x the number subtracted for Power Attack. Anything beyond that is ridiculous.

 

[Iku Rex]

The way I read it, Leap Attack gives up to 3x the number subtracted for Power Attack.

Can you perhaps explain a little more how you "read" the extra damage from power attacking with a two-handed weapon to be equal to the number subtracted from your attack rolls? It seems to me that this "reading" flat out contradicts the Power Attack feat...

Example: A fighter with a greataxe subtracts 5 from his attacks with the Power Attack feat. How much extra damage from the Power Attack feat does he do? (Regular attack, not using Leap Attack)

Anything beyond that is ridiculous.

Clearly WotC disagrees. (Even if we assume that the errata is incomplete.)

 

[Machiavelli]

I dunno... I think this falls in the "too stupid to be in my campaign, but nice try" category.

Not EVERY thread in the rules forum has to devolve into debating very sketchy wording. After all, this is a gaming forum, not a courtroom. Nobody's life is at stake, and nobody's career is hanging on adhering to a specific, standardized enforcement for these "laws".

Besides, x6 power attack damage on one feat is farcically opposed to the usual D&D balance. You may as well start handing out epic feats at 5th level right alongside Leap Attack, then... but when it's your game, that's ok, do as you'd like. We on the ENWorld "D&D Rules" forum pass back and forth our experiences with using the D&D rules so that we can build on each other's successes and have even more fun than otherwise. Blatantly tossing around extreme interpretations and attempting to call them normal doesn't help that goal.
If anyone feels I'm accusing them of something, their guilt is self-evident, but that is not my intent. I'm simply suggesting a certain perspective on why we are here.

-~-

So, I was wondering about a particular application of Leap Attack: Talons. The natural Talon attack deals double damage on a charge in flight, in the DMG flying is considered just another mode of movement that uses the same rules for charging and such as those used on the ground, and Leap Attack is used generically for "combining a jump with a charge". That little string of logic would suggest that you could use Leap Attack while flying, and thinking about the actual physical action of leaping into an attack as a parallel of diving into one suggests the same. However, you can't actually "jump" while flying, lacking a solid support to jump from, so can you even MAKE a jump check?
If a player in a game I was DMing asked me this, I'd say "yeah, sure, make your jump check as though jumping down from at least 10 feet, but if you fail the check you lose the bonus damage, and if you fail by 5 points, you end up prone." I think that's pretty fair, but it's off the cuff, as I don't think I'm seeing any rules to actually SUPPORT that decision.
Thoughts?