Learning to be a bit more evil.

[ThoughtBubble]

I began the first session of my campaign today with a lot of worry. My last campaign ended on a rather sour note, and three of those four people are returning. In the last campaign, there was a whole lot of things taken for granted which really hurt the campaign, not to mention my feelings as well. A disturbingly large part of this whas the fact that the players knew that they could get away with anything. Here's an exerp from a conversation I had out of game with one player.

"So, your demonic soul-child is hunting you down, and you're looking for a job?"
"Well, it's what Colleen would do. You see she can't do anything about that, but she is running low on food. She can get a job and get some more food."
"Why not go get help?"
"She doesn't know anyone who can help."
"You mean like the Baron, and the rest of the party?"
"Oh, well, she doesn't trust the baron."
After this, it broke down into a heated discussion where he insisted that doing anything to try to deal with the situation was unrealistic because his character 'wasn't prepared for it'.

Essentially, it felt to me that I couldn't get my players to respond to anything. As I didn't out right do anything because of this, they fell under the idea that they didn't HAVE to worry about anything threatening them. And the sad truth of the matter is that they were absolutely right. They didn't have to worry, because ultimately, the consiquences didn't affect them in the slightest. Family, plot, villages, wealth, treasure, and all forms of interaction basically fell to a halt. So, I quit.

The thing that irques me the most about it though, is that I wrote a parody of one of our play sessions the first day I got frusterated enough to call the session early. Everyone who played in it says I got things completely accurate and brings up how enjoyable it was. Most everyone else (mostly non Role-players) tend to feel bad for me at that point.

So now, I'm trying to depart from that game style. The characters are not important. There are no special ways out in case of DM overestimation of the party's abilities. There is no real option about if they go into the dungeon, either they take the quests offered, or do nothing. And lastly, poor teamwork or foresight should be rewarded with death.

I'd like to do all that. I'd like to tear some stuff up. But despite all those words, I'm still about as ferocious and dangerous as a newborn kitten. Fortunately for me, we only got a little into the dungeon, as most of the evening was spent on character generation.

So now, I need your help.

The situation so far, is that they were memobers of a newly formed company in the military. They were supposed to return to a newly won fortress, but while there were ambushed by undead, and the main lines broke. They retreated into the fortress, but chased through the twisting mazelike halls, soon there were only 5 of them left, shut in one room.

The party consists of one human fighter, two human clerics, one half-elven sorcerer, and one dwarven rogue.

This far, they ran into a ghoul (who was placed alone, as the first encounter, simply so they could learn that they have paralisis), several dire rats, and a few tripped traps. True to form, they're not searching for traps, and the sorcerer keeps trying to go first (the fighter wont' let him).

I'd like the Fortress to be a sprawling, maze like structure that they're going to keep coming back to. Hopefully I can figure out the source of the undead, and have something new move in, after that threat's been eliminated (something more organized maybe).

Anyway, any help or thoughts on how to be a more dangerous kitten would greatly be apprecieated.

And if I havn't worn out my space for griping, i'd love to show that parody too.

 

[kramis]

kill one

just pick a character you think would take it the best and arrange for him to die (roll behind a screen if you have to, but make it look natural not contrived). Killing off a character should be a good wake up call to everyone that you are more serious.

 

[AngelTears]

I would start turning the screws. They are only five in a possibly not hostile fortress trying to keep the undead out.

They have no communication with the otuside world, or signs of resupplies. Food is an important part, not to mention weapons. If they have no swords or arrows, they can't defend themselves.

They have a choice, either they start exploring the frortess in the hopes of finding food or way to go around the undead outside leaving the walls undefended. Or keep defending the external area of the fortress, while possibly undead forces are movcing through the fortress to their backs.

Once the undead are removed they have another problem: keepingn the fortress and the refugee problem. What happens when you wake up and there is a hundred refugees waiting to get in, and hundreds more coming. Food is limited and does not grow on trees.

The frotress may still contain some nasty suprises that the players don't know about, and all the while the larger plots wheels continue to drive onwards and they are simply five leaves in autumn...

 

[Gundark]

be a dink

well...your going to have to learn to be a dink....if they play dumb hurt them. In my campaign I had a guy who kept running in to situations without thinking... I anticipated this...and made situations where this is really was an ouchy if he did this. If killing them dosn't work destroy their hard earned magic items...ala black pudding or use the sunder feat...don't be afraid to kill them all. when they bitch say....hey be smart or die...I'm not bailing you out anymore. This guy in my campaign..I had a talk with him...explain to him that he couldn't get mad at me, I told him he needed to play smart or else bad things would continue to happen to him. Do the same

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Kramis- I thought about just out and out killing someone, but that's not something that agrees with me. If they die, I want them to be looking at the situation and blaming themselves for their choice of action.

AngelTears-I hadn't thought much about keeping them in the fortress. I assumed that they'd try to make a break for it as soon as possible, and they've come up with a similar plan "Run like hell." The one prone to thinking ahead wants to go to their previous base camp (an occupied city), and report to their commanding officer. Maybe he'll order them back in.

Gundark- I have a guy like your player, well, two actually, but one has 6 hp and the other has 22. They're both chaotic neutral too. And I think killing them will be more than enough to dissuade them. Mostly, I've been taking the approach that they're in a very dangerous situation, with adversaries who want to live very badly, and whos best bet of doing that is being able to fight the party. Do you have any troubles with your players feeling that you're being unfair? I want to avoid that if at all possible.

Thank you very much for the feedback.

 

[Gundark]

well....it touchy

you have to be fair alright. Explain to them ahead of time that the encounters they will be facing are challenging, and that sometimes they will need to work together to defeat them. Do not go out of your way to kill a PC, players can smell that a mile away and it will sour your campaign. If you told them that they needed to work together, and that the challeges would be tougher then you don't have to worry about them complaining. And players sometimes complain...but if you have made the encounters beatable then you really have nothing to worry about. I'm a believer in sticking in monsters in an adventure that they don't have to fight. I mean Hill Giants don't hide out until the PC's are 7th level. Stick all types of monsters in. The difference is they don't have to fight these creatures...the ones they do have to fight will be tailored to their level. If their idiots and attack these things (wow..think of the XP we'll get...we can take him) then it's their own fault. However you will have warned them ahead of time, so it will be their fault for being stupid.

 

[AngelTears]

One rule I use is that if you do anything dumb, I ask "are you sure", if the asnewr is yes, I as the GM have no moral stops on going medievil. If the characters decide to wake a dragon by poking a stick in its eye or taunting obviously superiorly skilled characters or the head of an army... Well they get what they deserve.

The situation so far, is that they were memobers of a newly formed company in the military. They were supposed to return to a newly won fortress, but while there were ambushed by undead, and the main lines broke. They retreated into the fortress, but chased through the twisting mazelike halls, soon there were only 5 of them left, shut in one room.

If they are going to take the earliest possible moment to run, they have just done the worst cardinal sin a soldier can do and that is desertion in the face of the enemy. If they are caught there are two options only open to them. One is field execution the other is becoming a part of a penal company (which do nice things like mining enemy castles, building roads, as deserters they are even lower then the slaves and POWs they will be working with - the average life span of a traitor/deserter is measured in days).

Either which one involves that they will be stripped of their uniforms in front of the troops, their swords broken, and as the troops file past the hapless party they will be spat upon. There might even be the one who last a friend or family and blame them for what happened.

This is at least what I would do. Don't go out of your way to be nasty, remember that NPCs can do it for you. Don't tailor enemies to fit the characters, tailor the enemies to fit the war. If they want to go toe to toe against the necromancer, let them just remember they might walk back as part of the undead army.

 

[Bihor]

If you don't want to kill one player, let the player kill one.
You could capture on PC and the concequence of the action of the other could determind is fate.

A necromancer could be experimenting with the captured PC. If the player do somethig stupid and **wack** coup-de-grace.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Gundark- Actually, all my players know that I'm out to have a high lethality rate in this game. I just don't think it's fully sunken in yet. While I was thinking of adding a few really big bad monsters into the dungeon equation, if the monsters are halfway smart, the players are toast. Thus I'd need to strike a very carful balance of unintelligent (or one room) monsters. I also have a few misgivings about it, simply because if I put something in there, it's gotta be there for them to interact with, or because it makes sense.

Angel Tears- I should have been a little more specific. The fortress was captured by the royal armies and held for about a week. The Grey Legion was in the area at the time and in communication with the forces at the fortress. Communication quickly stopped, and they sent out the third company (of which the players are a member) to make contact and, if necessarry, bolster their forces. The third company was actually at the gates of the fortress before the old defenders rose from the grave to attack them. And, of course, the commanding officer was the first to go. From the one player who put any thought into it, the thought in his mind is that he was to make contact, and if they needed assistance, provide it. Given that he is unable to make contact and is missing his commanding officer, the best course of action is to return to the main force brief them on the situation, and wait for orders. I need to do a lot more structuring of the military forces (and thus, the politics behind it) before I get much farther. Know anything about that?

Bihor- The thought of having a PC captive seems to be a lot of trouble for me. Assuming the PC's do co-operate for a while, I have to find an opertunity to let the other player go. Not to mention the means to capture him in the first place. Any suggestions?

--
This far, I've been working on the politics of the fortress, now that it's inhabited by evil. The main person in charge at this point is Byron, an apprentice to the necromancer responsible for the undead that ambushed the company. However, the necromancer only left Byron here because nothing could possibly go wrong, and even if it did, this place was just a test the necromancer's new powers.

Byron, however, played with the enchantments when the company arrived. While he was able to manipulate them enough to re-raise the army, he lost control of them. He, his guardian, and his token guardsmen, are all hiding in the northernmost tower.

Another NPC of note is Gorin. He's a highly intelligent ghoul, with several ghouls who work with him. They see the necromancer's absence as a chance to grab at power, and prove their use. Unfortunately, the northern tower is warded against undead, and they can't act.

If Gorin encounters the party, he'll try to bargin with them, promising to show them the way out, if they can destroy the enchanted lantern holding the wards in place. If the lantern is destroyed, Gorin and his ghouls will rush the tower, and attempt to kill first Byron, then his guardian, and then mop up the less dangerous guards. Finally, when he shows the party the way out, if he estimates his chances are good, he'll turn on them as well.

I'm not quite sure the position of the lantern, but I'm pretty sure that getting to it will involve getting past the bulk of Byron's forces. Byron's guard will probablly consist of mostly unskilled thugish types, one guarding the stair into the tower(easy prey for a flanking thief) and the other six or seven will be in their quarters. Byron will be in his quarters, with the lantern likely in a side room. Byron's guardian (probablly an ogre) will be in a room further down the way.

Comments? Suggestions on stats or levels?
Thanks for reading and commenting this far.

Oh, the fighter's level two (got some lucky draws), the rest of the party is all level one.

 

[AngelTears]

I know a bit about how armies are structured. If you could give me a write up of your world, specifically the nation-state that the PCs are members of, I can try to form a good representation of how the army is structured as well as a bit about the politics of the army (or lack thereof). Aso I need to know the stance of the borders of the country.

I'll need to know general demographics, etc. I whould warn you though that I'll try to model it (if you want my help that is in this form) according to most likely a real military structure like that of the Romans around Julius Caesars time.

I should also warn you I am not, nor have I ever been in a real army. I just like the challenge, and I have been working on my own military campaign using the Roman model.