LEB Discussion Thread '10 Pt 2

[stonegod]

You can import Shadé (details here, but most chars are 4th and Shadé doesn't appear to advanced much.

 

[Otakkun]

My suggestion:

LEB bonus becomes a feat bonus and the 3 above feats become a fixed +1 bonus (untyped), like Hellfire Blood, the most similar core feat that stacks with the WotC bandaid.

Why not just leave them all as a feat bonus? I think that way we prevent any misuse.

 

[Someone]

To complicate things more, the essentials Ranger gets the new Expertise for free with bows or crossbows.

 

[KarinsDad]

Why not just leave them all as a feat bonus? I think that way we prevent any misuse.

The problem is that you throw out some feats if you do that.

For example:

Improvised Missile: +2 feat bonus to attack and damage rolls with improvised missiles for a Barbarian

Does anyone here think that this shouldn't be allowed along with the math fix?

Aerenal Half-Life
Mror Stalwart
Watchful Guardian
Wild Bull Rush


I think a better house rule is to keep the LEB Expertise House Rule as is and add a rule that the feat bonus to attack rolls from any feat where the feat bonus increases with tier, those bonuses are not allowed. This would affect all of the Expertise feats, half of the new Expertise feats, half of Draconic Spellcaster, half of Gnome Phantamist, etc. It also wouldn't auto-nerf new feats unless they are Expertise-like.

 

[Walking Dad]

IMHO, reduced to give only the damage bonus will not make the old feats useless. And the change to a feat bonus will fix further expertise like feats (aka feats with scalable to hit bonus).

But the interest to keep them I suggested this above (changed to include new examples):

LEB bonus becomes a feat bonus and the scaling feats with a feat bonus on 'to hit' become a fixed +1 bonus (untyped), like Hellfire Blood, the most similar core feat that stacks with the WotC bandaid.

The old feats remain, are still good choices, but don't become the way to go for characters who can take them.

-----

To complicate things more, the essentials Ranger gets the new Expertise for free with bows or crossbows.

No problem. We don't weaken the class, but give everyone the bonus. And they still have the other benefits of the feat without paying for it. Seems still fair.

 

[Someone]

Speaking of another thing, the Essentials changes to races are included in the October errata, so that means that new characters can use those options. Am I wrong?

 

[KarinsDad]

Speaking of another thing, the Essentials changes to races are included in the October errata, so that means that new characters can use those options. Am I wrong?

The Essentials changes that were a separate document and not part of the normal errata are not included. So, those changes come into effect October 25th. I don't think there were any Essentials changes in the normal October update.

 

[LogicsFate]

You can import Shadé (details here, but most chars are 4th and Shadé doesn't appear to advanced much.

I was looking at all of the old adventure threads and apparently I was just shy of 3rd level. Never updated character sheet? Info lost in the crash? Who knows, I've got to check dates. I might petition for those last few hundred xp but I don't have much of a case for it =p.

Either way, at least I hit level 2 and got some gold out of it and a strange animosity to lizard folk for that matter...

 

[evilbob]

Speaking of another thing, the Essentials changes to races are included in the October errata, so that means that new characters can use those options. Am I wrong?

The Essentials changes that were a separate document and not part of the normal errata are not included. So, those changes come into effect October 25th. I don't think there were any Essentials changes in the normal October update.

Yeah, this is all kinds of weirdness. We're probably just splitting hairs, since it should be ok in two weeks, but WotC doing something outside of their normal set ways has definitely confused a lot of folks, myself included.

At the moment, it seems like the changes to the races that only involve the new racial stats are probably ok, since those are included in the comprehensive errata released in October. Other than that, it's hard to say. And truthfully: it's not worth nitpicking, either.

I'm sure this will all be much clearer in a month or two, but in the meantime, if you'd like to use something from Essentials I'd suggest just running it through this discussion thread first. It's pretty safe to assume that most published stuff will get approved on schedule, and that by the time the judges have enough time to check your sheet it may be a moot point anyway, but it's better to check stuff first and we can all hash it out before anyone wastes time updating a sheet and then has to change it. We'd all like to avoid confusion, but it's just a rather confusing time for 4.0 at the moment.

 

[Someone]

in the meantime, if you'd like to use something from Essentials I'd suggest just running it through this discussion thread first.

I just have a human character waiting to be sent for approval who has the Heroic Effort power instead of the third at will. Oh, and has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat damage bonus listed for both main and off hand. That's all.