4E LEB Discussion Thread '10 Pt 2

Velmont

Villager
Thanks everyone! :)

Divine Sanction is just a EONT Divine Challenge without the mark, correct?

Also I read polearms are good weapon for them, but you need a lot of feats for them. Is there a good polearm feat combo?
Divine Sanction is a mark + capacity to deal damage if enemy ignore. That last as long as the power who created it state it.

Divine Challenge is a special case of a Divine Sanction, and last as long as you met the requirement of the Divine Challenge

Some power mark. You wont deal damage if they ignore you.
 

Luinnar

Villager
Is Heroes of the Fallen lands approved for use? There is a great at-will spell in there for Mythra (I believe it is called Beguiling Strands, Blast 5, damage + push, party friendly).
 

KarinsDad

Villager
Is Heroes of the Fallen lands approved for use? There is a great at-will spell in there for Mythra (I believe it is called Beguiling Strands, Blast 5, damage + push, party friendly).
5 days and counting. Go ahead and modify the powers to Mythra with DM approval. Remember, when Mythra gets to 5th level, you are allowed to do a major overhaul on him.
 

renau1g

Villager
So just found another perhaps either unforeseen change, or stealth nerf, from the recent change to Healing Word. It has lost its Divine keyword in Essentials. Now, what's the big deal you ask? Why let's look at the Pacifist Healer Feat. Well, it states that you must use a DIVINE power that allows the target to use a healing surge to benefit from this power, effectively rendering it much less effective as it doesn't now stretch to cover Healing Word for the cleric. Ironically, now the melee cleric has more powers that would trigger this feat (at least at lower levels)

[sblock=Compendium Entry]"Healing Word

You whisper a brief prayer as divine light washes over your target, helping to mend its wounds.

Encounter (Special) Healing
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)

Target: You or one ally in the burst

Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain 1d6 additional hit points.
Level 6: 2d6 additional hit points.
Level 11: 3d6 additional hit points.
Level 16: 4d6 additional hit points.
Level 21: 5d6 additional hit points.
Level 26: 6d6 additional hit points.

Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter.

Update (8/2/2010)
Power updated to match Essentials data.[/sblock]

[sblock=Compendium entry for Pacifist Healer]
Pacifist Healer

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Cleric
Benefit: When you use a divine power that allows a target to spend a healing surge, the target regains additional hit points equal to 1d6 + your Charisma modifier. The additional hit points increase to 2d6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th level, and to 3d6 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.
Also, whenever you hit or miss a bloodied enemy and deal damage to it, you are stunned until the end of your next turn.[/sblock]
 

KarinsDad

Villager
So just found another perhaps either unforeseen change, or stealth nerf, from the recent change to Healing Word. It has lost its Divine keyword in Essentials. Now, what's the big deal you ask? Why let's look at the Pacifist Healer Feat. Well, it states that you must use a DIVINE power that allows the target to use a healing surge to benefit from this power, effectively rendering it much less effective as it doesn't now stretch to cover Healing Word for the cleric. Ironically, now the melee cleric has more powers that would trigger this feat (at least at lower levels)
Stealth nerf.

Pacifist Healer should have never been allowed in the game system in the first place (typically 13 extra free healing per encounter at heroic, 20 at paragon, 30 at 16th, and 40 at epic) and that's just with Healing Word and not considering other healing powers. The gain is just too great compared to the loss, especially with powers like Astra Seal existing.

Compared to Toughness (say for a PC with 8 healing surges who uses them all) at 13, 26 and 39 extra hit points per day (sometimes 8 more depending on hit points total pre-toughness), PH is huge (gaining in a single encounter with Healing Word alone as many additional hit points as Toughness gives in an entire day). So, they nerfed it.

The math isn't that hard to do. You'd think they would have learned to extrapolate some numbers before allowing a feat or power or item into the game by now. It screwed them over with AC, to hit, and NADs.


Hopefully, Cloak of Courage will be next (hundreds or even over a thousand extra temporary hit points per day).
 

renau1g

Villager
I would have whole-heartedly agreed re: pacifist healer before the MM3 adjustments , now it is an awesome feat, but I really wish they (wotc) would man up and state the change. I only found out via their forum when someone was discussing the new essentials druid preview. I'm sure most DM's would have missed that.

Where's Cloak of Courage? Couldn't find it in the compendium. Also, I would like them to nerf Spark Slippers. Them + battlemind = 1k DPR...
 

Luinnar

Villager
Speaking of the new Druid, I love what I've seen so far. Back to being a leader, fun pet, encounter seems fun (though it might get boring after awhile). I always missed the 3E druid, now it is back in a way.
 

Luinnar

Villager
They gave up wild shape though right?
Looks like they don't get the wild shape at-will. You probably will be able to choose the wild shape utilities though (and the daily summonings) since they can pick those. So add in some controller-ish at-wills and you get the 3E druid.

Good old "I can do everything you can plus more" 3E Druid ;)

Link to the article for those who missed it.
 

KarinsDad

Villager
Where's Cloak of Courage? Couldn't find it in the compendium.
16th level Cleric power out of Divine Power.

Encounter power: Each target (i.e. ally) gains temporary hit points equal to his or her healing surge value. Temporary hit points do not reset until a rest. So, use the power after each rest.

If the 16th level PCs have 100 average hit points (a bit low) and there are 5 PCs including the Cleric, then that's 100 free temporary hit points per encounter. 5 Encounters = 500 extra temporary hit points. At level 30, that could easily be 170 or more temporary hit points per encounter or over 1000 temporary hit points if the day has 6 encounters.

The same 16th level Cure Critical Wounds would be ~75 hit points per day at level 16, not 500.
 
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Walking Dad

Villager
Speaking of the new Druid, I love what I've seen so far. Back to being a leader, fun pet, encounter seems fun (though it might get boring after awhile). I always missed the 3E druid, now it is back in a way.
Don't like it. Druid was never leader, but a divine caster. Didn't liked animal companions in 3.X. Will miss the shapeshifter class support. Always liked the Shapeshifter alternative in PH2 for 3.5. Looses animal companion and wildshape for at will shapeshift.
 

renau1g

Villager
16th level Cleric power out of Divine Power.

Encounter power: Each target (i.e. ally) gains temporary hit points equal to his or her healing surge value. Temporary hit points do not reset until a rest. So, use the power after each rest.

If the 16th level PCs have 100 average hit points (a bit low) and there are 5 PCs including the Cleric, then that's 100 free temporary hit points per encounter. 5 Encounters = 500 extra temporary hit points. At level 30, that could easily be 170 or more temporary hit points per encounter or over 1000 temporary hit points if the day has 6 encounters.

The same 16th level Cure Critical Wounds would be ~75 hit points per day at level 16, not 500.
Ah yes...that one should be changed. I guess they thought the standard action cast time was a check, but really even if it was limited to in-combat casting most/all of the cleric attack powers will do less than 100 damage, so it was still be far better to cast this as his first action every time.
 

ryryguy

Villager
Sorry, I've been out of action for a few days and will be for a few more. It's like a perfect storm: the Eye of Sauron is upon me at work (and has kept me late the last few nights), and it's my anniversary tonight with related activities through tomorrow. I hope to be posting again on Sunday. Please NPC any of my characters who may be holding things up.

Thanks!
 

EvolutionKB

Villager
Sorry about my absence. Needed a new hard drive for my computer, and took be a while to get to the store and have time to install it.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Nope. We have not voted. I will check the original thread later to see if the bonus was named or not.
 

raion

Villager
Don't like it. Druid was never leader, but a divine caster. Didn't liked animal companions in 3.X. Will miss the shapeshifter class support. Always liked the Shapeshifter alternative in PH2 for 3.5. Looses animal companion and wildshape for at will shapeshift.
Meanwhile I was always a fan of the 2e druid, which the 3e shapeshifters were a massive departure from. Finally back to being able to read a druid class description without getting upset at the nerfed class.. wouldn't have minded if they'd just changed the name.

Classic druid was a leader/controller, with the capability to focus in either direction, or even towards striker (i loved my stabby druid.. he was so angry).. though their versatility suffered with such focus. They were never as capable as a pure whatever, but they made for great roleplay, so I never cared.
 

Walking Dad

Villager
Which is the 'classic' druid? 2e? He got shapeshifting here, it was only even less defined than in 3.x.

The 3.x druid was a very capable class and a great controller and striker. Where did you find him lacking vs. the 'pure whatever'?
 

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