4E LEB Discussion Thread '10 Pt 2

raion

Villager
Which is the 'classic' druid? 2e? He got shapeshifting here, it was only even less defined than in 3.x.

The 3.x druid was a very capable class and a great controller and striker. Where did you find him lacking vs. the 'pure whatever'?
Base 3.0, and to a degree 3.5, was similar to the 2e druid, and I played several that I enjoyed thoroughly, but the flavor in supplements started to spin towards shapeshifting, leaving the original idea by the wayside.. when you can turn into an aardvark and kill gods, who cares why you're doing it? 4e druid was the logical progression.. the horrible logical progression. Not a druid so much as an angry shapeshifter with a nature theme.

I won't say anything bad about the 4e (or even the later 3.x versions of) druid as a class, but I didn't agree with keeping the name and trashing most of the rest. Hence my relief at finally seeing a 4e version of Druid as Druid, instead of Druid as traditional Berserker with a touch of traditional shaman.
 

Walking Dad

Villager
So, you see the 2e and beginning 3e Druid as a leader class with a pet? Ok, got it.

I saw it as a nature priest with shapeshifting who had a flavor pet.

Different experiences, but both valid.

I just wished they had kept the possibility for shapeshifting... but this will surely be 'patched' soon in the Class Compendium line.


---

In other news:

Shades
were confirmed as new race in Heroes of Shadow (in the this month Starlock Dragoon section).
 

renau1g

Villager
I saw the 2e druid as one with sucky restrictions because you could only level so high and then you needed to defeat the Grand Druid (or whatever they were called) to advance in levels. Stupid to me as the PC would either need to leave the group and have a solo adventure or drag everyone from whatever they were doing to go take care of his problems to level up while all the thief had to do was find gold ;)
 

CaBaNa

Villager
[MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION], 20 character limit... wtf is that?

(talking about the online CB for those who don't know.)

I'm letting my subscription lapse, they'll need to show some real value for me to pay for something I don't get to keep. It's not just the CB thing, but that plays a large role in the decision.
 

renau1g

Villager
Hmmm well they claim it's to prevent DDOS (I think denial of service?) attacks on their servers, but many users have shown that doesn't hold water as it would take days of a constant updating computer to cause such an issue with the CB and they certainly would detect it far sooner than that.

My subs up next summer and they'll definitely need to have at least the campaign management tools, an actual working Monster builder (which correctly has monster stats according to their errata, which the current one doesn't), the CB updates caught up, and some sort of Encounter Builder. If they have the VTT...well I'll take back all the negative things I said about WotC ;)

Oh, BTW New Vegas rocks so hard. Way better IMO than Fallout 3. Washington was cool, but Vegas baby!
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
FNV is great. They got the ending right (actually told you the effect of many of your actions, as opposed to F3). However, it freezes often enough to be annoying. It'd be great otherwise; now its just groovy. :)
 

CaBaNa

Villager
ha ha ha, aaah... VTT, good one.

Yeah I'd have to send a written apology to WOTC if that happened...

@stonegod, FNV does have a large number of small glitches and freeze points. Luckily I haven't run into anything game-breaking yet. The 100 save limit was sad, as I like to save before crucial moments and revisit them later. In Fallout 3, my favorite save wasn't even part of my characters actual story. Made a safety save, then went and blew up Megaton, reverted to the safety, and finished the game having never done it. But when friends come over, I get to show them the Nuke.

EDIT: Apparently I don't like limits in general...
 

KarinsDad

Villager
Did LEB have a expertise rule discussion/proposal like L4W did? Staff expertise looks very fun for a sentinel druid ;)

Edit: Nevermind, looks like you did. No proposal was but in place, right?
Yes, that got mired down in discussion with no real good solutions proposed. So for now, the rules haven't changed. The only reasonable solution at this point might be to change the LEB bonus to a feat bonus and be done with it. Course, that will prevent some other feats from even being ussable at all, but shrug...
 

KarinsDad

Villager
Just FYI.

I am letting my DDI subscription expire due to the new Character Builder mess. I should be able to review PCs for quite some time, but there will be a point in time where my version of CB is way out of date and it will be too difficult to look every obscure little game element up in the errata.

So at some point, probably about 6 months from now or so, I won't be able to approve PCs anymore.

I actually would encourage many people to let their DDI subscriptions expire in order to get WotC to stop screwing with their customer base, but that's a personal decision for everyone.
 

twilsemail

Villager
Yes, that got mired down in discussion with no real good solutions proposed. So for now, the rules haven't changed. The only reasonable solution at this point might be to change the LEB bonus to a feat bonus and be done with it. Course, that will prevent some other feats from even being ussable at all, but shrug...
Or make them both "Expertise" bonuses and let them stack with anything other than themselves. If someone wants to burn a feat and gain that +1 early but lose a bit of luster with that feat later on, I say let them.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I actually would encourage many people to let their DDI subscriptions expire in order to get WotC to stop screwing with their customer base, but that's a personal decision for everyone.
*Shrug* Compendium stills worth it for me, but I have the freedom of discretionary income and lots of patience.

If someone wants to propose something Re: Expertise, go right ahead. I'll read it.
 

KarinsDad

Villager
Or make them both "Expertise" bonuses and let them stack with anything other than themselves. If someone wants to burn a feat and gain that +1 early but lose a bit of luster with that feat later on, I say let them.
The problem with this solution is the new Essential feats (and some other older feats as well). One could get an Essential feat Feat bonus plus an Expertise feat Expertise and be +2 to hit and an Superior Implement Accurate feat Unnamed bonus and be +3 to hit. +3 to hit with 3 feats is too potent and at level 5, that would be +3 to hit with 2 feats. It's a darn shame that WotC screwed up the math in the first place and then added Accuracy. They kept claiming (3 years ago) that they weren't going to do that. Adding to hit bonuses that are heavily conditional is a game design flaw.

One could take multiple specific WotC feat bonus feats (i.e. the ones with the word Expertise in their name) and make them Expertise feats instead, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Making the LEB bonus a feat bonus limits it to +2 with 2 feats and +2 with 1 feat at level 5. The PCs here already have this.

Course, if we are going to discuss this, we probably should resurrect that thread.
 

twilsemail

Villager
What I meant by "both" was "both the current expertise ruling and the new expertise feats." I spologise for being lax in my explanation.

This would mean that, in fact, people could not take the new expertise feats and gain a +2 to hit becuase they would be similarly typed.
 

Walking Dad

Villager
Please resurrect the thread.

And please don't make it another feat category. I think feat bonus is great and there shouldn't that much power stack that give a to-hit bonus. IMHO, the best solution would to get rid of the houserule entirely. Who cares if it is a feat tax if everyone will pay it? When you start at level 4, you got at least 3 feats anyway. Now (with Essentials) you can still choose another nifty bonus with the 'expertise feats'.

And, for the record, I never liked the 'hidden' racial expertise feats.
 

renau1g

Villager
ha ha ha, aaah... VTT, good one.

Yeah I'd have to send a written apology to WOTC if that happened...
[MENTION=82643]CaBaNa[/MENTION] - get your writing pen out...

"It’s time for a look at the next digital product we’re working on for D&D – The Dungeons & Dragons Virtual Table! The D&D VT is an online tool that Dungeon Masters and adventurers can use to run and participate virtually in D&D tabletop adventures. The tool has a whole bunch of features such as dungeon tiles for making maps, monster and character tokens, avatars that can be statted out and initiative and attack rollers. Users will need access to the rules and information found in the Dungeons & Dragons tabletop Roleplaying Game Core Rules in order to use the D&D VT. "

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible
 

evilbob

Villager
The virtual table is apparently not compatible with the online Character Builder or Monster Tools.

So don't get your apology pen out just yet.
 

dimsdale

Villager
To the judges

I'm currently able to read incoming e-mail, but not send any out going mail. I can resolve this issue by contacting my internet provider, which I plan to do next week. Until then, I can't send CS approvals to the judges.

here is the CS for Rumbum Requesting approval for lvl 6.

thanks


dimsdale
 

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