Left out by rules-lite RPGs?

[resistor]

I've been looking at the various rules-lite D20 variants, but repeatedly find that my desires aren't catered to by any of them. My basic dilemma is this: I want (modern) D&D, just simpler.

To clarify, I want to play D&D, not another RPG. That means I'm looking for a system that approximates D&D's genre and flavor. I'm not interested in generic systems, because I like to have my system reflect (as least somewhat) my genre. True20 fails the "too generic" test.

I only ever played older versions of D&D briefly; I have no particular interest in emulating them. I like D&D's flavor and "feel" as it is now, I just wish it were a bit simpler. That rules out Castles and Crusades.

Are there no systems that cater to my needs? Am I the only one who wants these things? If not, I think this is a real hole in the market that some enterprising publisher could do well off exploiting.

What do you think?

 

[Turjan]

Perhaps, you can ask a friend to glue the C&C rules between some PHB covers?

 

[seskis281]

What you are wanting is what could be described as "D&D Medium." I assume you like the flavor of feats and advancement of 3.x, but bogle at the amount of variant rules and mechanics entailed. While I personally think WoTC would be smart to go with this as an idea rather than a full-blown 4.0 to replace 3.x, I doubt they will.

While I am a Castles & Crusades devotee, you certainly explain why that's not your cup of tea. Unfortunately that leaves you somewhat stuck in the middle where there's not much being produced (the rules lite and "generic" d20s go in one direction away from you and the mainstream D&D products continue to head the other way).

My best suggestion will take some work - make your own system. Take what you like from 3.x and throw out the rest. Just because someone wrote a "rule" doesn't mean you have to use it. Take the 3.x combat and drop all the Attacks of Opportunities, reduce the number of multiple attacks by letting them aquire slower, etc. Collapse the dozens of skills into several "meta-skill" categories (where one check can be used for several things - swimming/climbing/jumping etc.)

There will be others who will make suggestions of certain systems - I am willing to bet Iron Heroes will come up here, but the biggest challenge is that you like the feel and flavor of 3.x D&D and just about every system does change that to a degree.

Best of Luck!

John Maddog Wright

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Use the rules from the D&D Basic Game.

 

[resistor]

Perhaps, you can ask a friend to glue the C&C rules between some PHB covers?

Heh.

But seriously, I've looked at C&C, and too many of the rules seem to exist solely for the purpose to reinstate some "old school" feel. Things like the different XP charts for each class and the six different saves don't do anything for me in terms of bringing back non-existance old times, and they needlessly change the base system.

No, I'm pretty confident that C&C isn't what I'm looking for.

 

[Darrin Drader]

What is it that you don't like about True20? I was looking to go rules light because I was sick of combat dragging out so long, and True20 fit the bill perfectly for me. I wasn't crazy about the damage system at first, but I came around on that and I'm actually quite happy with it. If you don't like the fact that it only has 3 roles (character classes), Green Ronin has a PDF available that tells you how to do the core classes from D&D in True20.

 

[JonMonster]

Heh.

But seriously, I've looked at C&C, and too many of the rules seem to exist solely for the purpose to reinstate some "old school" feel. Things like the different XP charts for each class and the six different saves don't do anything for me in terms of bringing back non-existance old times, and they needlessly change the base system.

No, I'm pretty confident that C&C isn't what I'm looking for.

Maybe it isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I don't see why it couldn't be if you tweaked it a bit. It sounds to me like you want C&C with a few of the more wonky bits simplified. So simplify them. If I ever get around to running C&C my first action will be to house rule in the D&D 3.X ability mods and experience tables. Sure, it's going to throw off the game balance a bit, but not so bad that I can't fix it on the fly.

Got a problem with six different saves? No sweat, just figure everything is either Dex, Con, or Wis based - same as in 3.X.

 

[seskis281]

Resistor - Is the problem that you want the PUBLICATIONS for a system - with the artwork etc. that gives what you are calling "feel?" I always liked the "feel" of the layout and organization for 3.x, just not all the rules. If this is the case, then sorry my friend, but I doubt you'll find a published system that fits your requirements. You certainly can either take 3.x and simplify as I proposed or take something like C&C and reapply the 3.x factors you like to it.

But it sounds like you're saying you don't want to do that, and that is a bit of a pickle.

John Maddog Wright

 

[resistor]

What is it that you don't like about True20? I was looking to go rules light because I was sick of combat dragging out so long, and True20 fit the bill perfectly for me. I wasn't crazy about the damage system at first, but I came around on that and I'm actually quite happy with it. If you don't like the fact that it only has 3 roles (character classes), Green Ronin has a PDF available that tells you how to do the core classes from D&D in True20.

The 3-role system is indeed my biggest complaint with True20, though I'm not a huge fan of its handling of magic either. I'll have to look at the PDF. Do you happen to have a link to it?

 

[resistor]

Maybe it isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I don't see why it couldn't be if you tweaked it a bit. It sounds to me like you want C&C with a few of the more wonky bits simplified. So simplify them. If I ever get around to running C&C my first action will be to house rule in the D&D 3.X ability mods and experience tables. Sure, it's going to throw off the game balance a bit, but not so bad that I can't fix it on the fly.

Got a problem with six different saves? No sweat, just figure everything is either Dex, Con, or Wis based - same as in 3.X.

I can force any system to do what I want with enough effort. But if I'm going have to do lots of houseruling on C&C, how is it serving me better than just simplifying D&D 3.5 the way I want it?