Left out by rules-lite RPGs?

[philreed]

http://www.greenronin.com/store/grr9012e/

To be clear, True20 Fantasy Paths still keeps the 3 basic roles found in True20 -- all we've done it show you how to use those roles to create a paladin, barbarian, rogue, ranger, etc. (10 paths total.) Additionally, the PDF includes full stat blocks for the 10 different paths going from level 1 to level 20 (200 stat blocks) and a sample 1st-level character for each path that's ready-to-play in a campaign or one shot game.

The paths do not replace the roles; they work together.

 

[Belen]

Are there no systems that cater to my needs? Am I the only one who wants these things? If not, I think this is a real hole in the market that some enterprising publisher could do well off exploiting.

What do you think?

Modern D&D? How about d20 Modern?

 

[Belen]

What is it that you don't like about True20? I was looking to go rules light because I was sick of combat dragging out so long, and True20 fit the bill perfectly for me. I wasn't crazy about the damage system at first, but I came around on that and I'm actually quite happy with it. If you don't like the fact that it only has 3 roles (character classes), Green Ronin has a PDF available that tells you how to do the core classes from D&D in True20.

Meh...I have found that combat takes just as long in True20 as D&D.

 

[The Lost Muse]

The major simplification I'd like to see is a de-emphasizing of both tactical and strategic planning. In terms of combat, neither I nor my players are tactical geniuses, and we find it hard to take into account all the combat options, particularly special maneuvers and attacks of opportunity.

On the strategic end (and this one's a more specific complaint), I find that prepared casters are too complicated. Nobody I've ever played with actually wanted to invest the time in working out a good set of spells to prepare each day. Consequently, almost all the arcanists I've seen played were sorcerers, and the few wizards who were were generally very ineffective. In my ideal system, all casters would be spontaneous.

While they're not major issues for me, I could also stand to see some simplifications of skills and feats. Something like skill bundles or Mastery Feats from Iron Heroes.

I'd offer two slightly different suggestions, then.

1) Use the feats/combat rules from d20 Call of Cthulhu with D&D classes; however, use the following classes: Barbarian, Bard, UA Spontaneous Divine Casting Rules for Clerics and Druids, Fighter, make monk, ranger, and paladin prestige classes if you want them, Rogue, and Sorceror.

2) Get Mutants and Masterminds. There are no attacks of opportunity, and everything is a power than can be done every round. While this may not be your cup of tea, I'e often considered using M&M to emulate D&D. It'd certainly make a good substitute for the Epic level rules.

 

[arscott]

Modern D&D? How about d20 Modern?

d20 Modern isn't really a rules-light system. If the goal is to get rid of over-the-top spells and magic gear, then it's a great choice, but it still maintains the tactical complexity of D&D in most other ways.

 

[resistor]

I think a lot of people are mistaking my intent in posting this little rant. I know how I can modify the existing system to suit me. I'm not asking for advice on how to change the system.

Rather, I'm commenting on the fact that the existing rules-lite solutions all alter the game's flavor from default D&D. I'm asking why there is no rules-lite system that tries to preserve the default flavor, and if I'm the only person who would be interested in such a system. seskis281 put it best with his "D&D Medium" idea.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say that you're better off tweaking C&C in the direction of D&D 3.5 than you are going the other way. Treebore has offered some suggestions in this vein. However, this is what I would do to 3.5 to simplify it:

-Core classes only. Ditch PrCs; if you want an intermediate solution, maybe use substitution levels instead.

-No skill buys. Instead, all characters get to pick a number of skills in which they get max ranks; humans get one extra class skill, and each point of Int bonus gives you another skill to pick. (IIRC, there's a rule like this in Unearthed Arcana.)

-As Hussar suggested, actions that trigger AoOs simply become impossible in combat. Remove feats that relate to AoOs (including Combat Reflexes and Mobility). Movement-based AoOs can be changed to a simple rule; if you "turn your back" or "run by" an opponent (i.e. exit an opponent's space without using the withdraw action), your opponent gets a free attack on you.

-Use the sorcerer as the default spellcasting class. Its spellcasting mechanics are much simpler.

Also, isn't there a set of "D&D [3.5] Basic" rules somewhere? That might be the answer to your problems.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I use savage worlds for my current modern games, and it is wonderful. It fails your compatibility test with D&D though. To answer your question, I'm relatively certain that a system that matches your description closely isnt currently out there (depending on how you gauge "closely"). True 20 is possibly the closest thing, but you have ruled that out it seems. Hey, it might be time to come up with your own D20 game.

 

[painandgreed]

Rather, I'm commenting on the fact that the existing rules-lite solutions all alter the game's flavor from default D&D. I'm asking why there is no rules-lite system that tries to preserve the default flavor, and if I'm the only person who would be interested in such a system. seskis281 put it best with his "D&D Medium" idea.

I don't think you could make a rules-lite D&D and keep the default flavor because the rules of any game form the flavor. Change the rules, change the flavor. You might be able to change to rule-lite and keep only the bits of flavor that you want to keep, but somebody else will feel that it does not do this because the rule changes will change the bits of flavor they enjoy. Even then, such a thing probably wounldn't exist (or there wouldn't be many of them) because the path of least resistance would be to change existing rules rather than make minor modifications to form a new rule set and then publish and sell it.

 

[JonMonster]

The problem seems to be that you can't find exactly what you're looking for in a printed and published form. Which means you're going to have to just resign yourself to doing some rules tinkering. By all means, keeping looking for your own private holy grail (lord knows I've got two or three of those of my own,) but if you ultimately can't find what you're looking for I suspect the least amount of tinkering you're going to do will use C&C as a baseline.