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Legends & Lore: Experience Points and Levels


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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Explicitly acknowledging that story designs just need signposts saying "You are now level 5" is a big step forward. :)
 


Blackwarder

Adventurer
I just hope we will get some recognition about how XP and advancement methods effect play style and different methods of gaining XP.

Warder
 

Lokiare

First Post
You could solve all the problems in this article by simply shifting the xp from monsters, back to goal oriented quests.

Then those that like tallying xp can have a bunch of minor goals like defeat 12 orcs, rescue the princess from the goblins, or get the McGuffin before the bandit king. At the end of which everyone is awarded xp.

Then those that want to level up based on certain milestones can just award a levels worth of xp at those milestones.

(Please note, that was a solution and therefore this is constructive criticism for those that think I never do it right).
 

GMforPowergamers

First Post
I read the article last night before bed. I read it again this morning. I just read it again before posting... I don't get it.

did it say anything at all other then "Hey some people do X and some people do Y... and we tried both"

I mean nothing saying they were supporting one way or the other, or anything really. It seemed like pure filler
 

Thyrwyn

First Post
Mearls said it best: "I always like a rule change that mimics what a lot of DMs and players are already doing at the table."

Me, too. It's good to know that many XP options will be presented and that the game will work to accommodate a broad range of play styles.
 



DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I read the article last night before bed. I read it again this morning. I just read it again before posting... I don't get it.

did it say anything at all other then "Hey some people do X and some people do Y... and we tried both"

I mean nothing saying they were supporting one way or the other, or anything really. It seemed like pure filler
Mike said at the very bottom that rather than having adventure designers force the issue of having to include a "correct" number of encounters to get to character level up via straight XP... it's better to allow the designers to include both options-- monster XP and story-based advancement.

Did he outright say "We're going to force every adventure we write to have both methods represented in it"? No. But did he suggest that both methods can be represented as per what makes most sense to the adventure writer? Yes. Ipso facto... depending on the adventure (especially for Adventure Path modules as he called them out specifically), we will see both methods show up.
 


M.L. Martin

Adventurer
In the new arcticle M. Mearls discusses a topic which seems rather old for us at ENWorld.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. If this is going to reach more than the hardcore gamers, they'll need to provide support for those who come to the game fresh--and support for those who prefer a more open-ended, sandbox or "PvP MMO" style* and those who like a more linear, "console RPG" style will be necessary. :)

*Seriously, read Old Geezer's writings on what the original game was like. It reads a lot like a persistent-world MMO with strong PvP elements, with the big difference being the asynchronous nature of the multiplayer--hence the emphasis on keeping strict time records. :) Alternative, one could call this the 'arcade game' mode--life is cheap, restarts are easy, and high score is the goal. :)
 



Henrix

Explorer
You could solve all the problems in this article by simply shifting the xp from monsters, back to goal oriented quests.
Indeed. It would be better to give only nominal XP, or none, for blood.

And then some individual goals giving XP and we're getting somewhere.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
It's definitely a good this to see both methods of level advancement officially acknowledged.

That said, the books need XP values for those using this method, while the XP-less advancement was always automatically supported for those who wanted, me included.

Maybe one day in the future, also the third method will be acknowledged: no level advancement at all. Just pick your sweet spot, and play a campaign there. Narrative doesn't always need level advancement, and not every campaign needs a strictly increasing difficulty (apart from the fact the difficult isn't even automatically increasing, since monsters and PCs tend to "level up" at the same time).
 

Johnny3D3D

Adventurer
Sounds good to me.

Not counting individual XP, and just leveling when it seems appropriate is a pretty common practice. It's nothing new for me. However, I do like that it will be presented as an option. I try to remember that not everyone playing D&D is experienced with rpgs or D&D. Sometimes, something which might be obvious to me still needs to be stated for the benefit of others. Likewise, there are very likely things which are obvious to others, but need to be stated for me.
 


Mistwell

Legend
Perhaps worth noting that in the recent Scourge of the Sword Coast adventure, the monsters in the bestiary list no XP, and the adventure simply states when the party levels as follows:

GAINING EXPERIENCE
Characters start the adventure at 2nd level. They then gain levels as follows.
3rd Level: When the party returns from [LOCATION], the characters advance to 3rd level.
4th Level: When the party returns from [LOCATION], the characters advance to 4th level.
5th Level: After the party deals with the [FOE] during the adventure’s conclusion, the characters
advance to 5th level.

I found the lack of XP listings in the bestiary a bit of a nuisance, since I am trying to insert some of these creatures in my own adventure and I would like to know their level and XP value.
 

mlund

First Post
I'm actually very taken with the idea of using Goals as the measuring stick for XP / level advancement in story-driven campaigns rather than XPs-per-kill or flat "Get here, gain a level" markers.

Tabulate successes and failures as it relates to Goals to achieve campaign victories and what 13th Age called "Campaign Loses."

I could see an adventure path where X Campaign Victories bring you up a level, while Campaign Losses give the DM license to let the consequences stir up a little more havoc. I kind of like the idea of racing against "Campaign Losses," maybe even having to go out of your way and score extra victories or otherwise mitigate those campaign losses before moving onto the next stage in the path.

- Marty Lund
 

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