Let's ban Teleport!

[FreeTheSlaves]

I don't know how useful my post is to this thread but I'll share my experiences with teleport with all and see if it helps some.

This is from a dm's view-point and that campaign didn't go past 12th level.

• Wizard and Travel cleric got access at level 9-10 (not the wiz 1st choice spell)
• Travel to new locations was the ye olde way; travel back via teleport.
• The error factor only kicked in a couple of times and one time it was most inconvenient. From then on, if time wasn't a factor they'd travel overland.
• The travel cleric got into a most excellent habit of carefully familiarizing himself with waypoints which he made into shrines; for more successful teleports.
• Exploring overland (they were the advance pathfinders of an army) the party would teleport to specific points viewable on the horizon; aproximately 25 miles away.
• The large bags of holding are made for the teleporting party.

In regards to defending specific sites v teleport; i.e. where significant powers with a reasonable arcane knowledge reside that wish to control visitors; I used forbidance, dimensionally anchored (un)hallowed ground, or I simply invoked the traps formula.

I used the traps rule for constructing areas with permanent dimensional anchors quite a bit because it was not divine magic specific. That said you have to look at the cost to craft and compare it to the npc. Sure, they may have inherited a site that is anchored (which is therefore subject to local knowledge+) but using the traps formula requires the npc to have serious wealth at their disposal.

Just to beef up the non-spellcasters, I put in portals to allow teleportation of a limited kind.

Anyhoo...

 

[Saeviomagy]

For me it is actually mostly the part with the safe retreat (there are enough other options, but Teleport is so immensely superior to any of these), or go to the city to fetch whatever is needed instead of coming up with a creative solution. Creativity is no longer required, we now have Teleport, which takes care of all our needs. Teleport is just the dumbfire missile of D&D, so to say. Shoot it at a problem and it goes away.

The thing is: The safe retreat is almost always an option one way or another. Further to that, unless the dungeon is doable in a single session ANYWAY, it's always necessary. The spell just replaces "oh, you have a couple of encounters on the way out" which you've seen over and over and... over again with "you're there".

That's the thing. Teleport is just narrative editing that COSTS the players.

Currently I'm in a D&D game which is aiming for a quest in the underdark somewhere. Since noones seen the entrance we're after, and we've got one party member who's... irrational in his dislike of magic, we've got to walk.
Frankly - working out how many rations we're carrying, working out our encumbrance for a journey through cold mountains, working out who can climb a cliff and the like, and having random, unconnected encounters with monsters is boring me to tears. I'd much rather fire off a teleport and be there, and get stuck into some genuine adventuring.

As for teleport somehow solving every problem... wow. You must be meeting some lame-ass problems for a high level game. Are NPC's sending you out shopping for milk or something?

Even WITH teleport banned, the existence of spells which create something from nothing, and then change that something into the something that you want are going to solve all the problems that you cite teleport as the easy solution to. At high level, quests need to be genuinely difficult. Otherwise they can be left to the level 1 characters of the world.

Given the kind of stuff that lives in the underdark (Aboleths, beholders, mind flayers, etc.), it's clearly not intended to be stuff you stroll through at 3rd level.

They're monsters. That's not the underdark. The same monsters could be presented in any setting.

The underdark itself, the hazards of caving, and being in the dark, far away from civilisation and without a supply chain, is not suitable for high level play. High level characters are (or should be) past all that.

 

[Belegbeth]

I sympathise with the frustrations expressed by many in this thread concerning teleportation in 3.x.

But why the big debate??? :\

If the DM thinks that a certain spell, ability, class, or race undermines or ruins the character of his/her campaign, then BAN IT. Monks don't fit in the Western European character of your campaign? BANNED. Teleport ruins the kinds of adventures you want to run? BANNED.

There is NO reason to include everything in the core rules -- and in fact, I think that trying to include everything can lead to a pretty incoherent campaign.

Far better to simply ban a spell that doesn't fit than come up with all kinds of ad-hoc ways to get around the spell in question. Life is too short...

 

[Talon5]

But why the big debate??? :\

It was a statement placed to the board to ask for ideas and thoughts. What would it do? Why keep TP like spells? How can things be changed to keep TP spells and not allow powerful attacks to take place- such as TP out, heal up, beef up and TP back in to the danger zone.

All and all it is always up to the GM and we know that- Thanee knows that, she just wanted thoughts on the idea.

 

[Incenjucar]

The difference between flight and teleport is that flight can lead to adventures en route.

Cloud cities, flying creatures, and noticing trouble below or on the horizon are classic fantasy events, and can occur WITHOUT every bloody thing having spellcasting abilities.

 

[StalkingBlue]

Interesting discussion, I always like to see different people's stances on play style.

Personally, this thread strongly confirms me in my feeling that I'll want quick-travel magic to become available in my Midnight game at higher levels.

(Yeah I know. Blasphemy. Then again, most Midnight DMs I've heard from wouldn't even let PCs in their games have horses, and no kidding. )

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

(Yeah I know. Blasphemy. Then again, most Midnight DMs I've heard from wouldn't even let PCs in their games have horses, and no kidding. )

From what I've heard, they don't even let them have legs.... if the Orcs catch up with them?

 

[Gez]

The difference between flight and teleport is that flight can lead to adventures en route.

Cloud cities, flying creatures, and noticing trouble below or on the horizon are classic fantasy events, and can occur WITHOUT every bloody thing having spellcasting abilities.

What about drifting cities, astral creatures, and noticing trouble beyond the mundane dimensions? When you teleport, you actually travel through the astral. While the travel is very fast, it's a house-rule with less consequences to allow the astral travel to be interrupted by things (a gang of githyanki, an astral dreadnought, a strange phenomena, whatever) than banning it entirely.

 

[StalkingBlue]

From what I've heard, they don't even let them have legs.... if the Orcs catch up with them?

True that - of course they have to catch you first.

 

[Thanee]

Even WITH teleport banned, the existence of spells which create something from nothing, and then change that something into the something that you want are going to solve all the problems that you cite teleport as the easy solution to.

Sure, but that's a bit more creative than just hop to the city, buy whatever you need, and hop back, or not?

Actually, in the first post already, I mentioned that this would lead to more use of otherwise rather rarely used spells.

Anyhow, like some (very few ) people here have realized by now, I do not have any explicit problem, but am just exploring ideas, which might be used in future campaigns.

Bye
Thanee