Let's be clear about the motives behind the original OGL

[Morrus]

I don't think this is true. I think you would have had a big boom in RPGs, because the nature of publishing was changing dramatically in that period. And the reason so many put out tons of games now isn't OGL, it is because Drivethru exists, because POD is a thing, etc.

This was before DTRPG and before PoD by a decade. That was she they made that deal with us.

 

[Bedrockgames]

This was before DTRPG and before PoD by a decade. That was she they made that deal with us.

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest DTRPG and POD were around then. I meant that the reason so many games are coming out now is because of those two things. I came into publishing in 2009, so the early 2000s were a time I know a lot less about and was speculating. My understanding is things like desktop publishing and changes in distribution were changing publishing making it easier to get into publishing at that time (again this was more my impression from the outside at that time, as I was a customer who was becoming more interested in entering publishing).

Out of curiosity when did DTRPG and POD become widely available ?(by the time I got into in 2009, POD was definitely an option, and while it wasn't consolidated into one platform, Drivethru and RPGnow were both around).

 

[Bedrockgames]

I would disagree with almost all of this.

I was definitely speculating so I am not sure. But I guess my point is the OGL didn't do anything that I am aware of to make actually entering publishing easier. It didn't change the fact that to start a game company you still have to invest in pre-production and post production for example. It just meant you didn't need to make your own system (but prior to d20, people put out original systems all the time)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I feel for you. But I guess at that time you were not deceived. The people you dealt with probably acted in good faith. It is not the people back then, but the people today.
Probably someone should have read the fineprint and when everyone updated their licenses to be explicitely irrevocable, it should have been the time to ask them to update their license too.


That said, I think whoncould know 20 years ago how everything is working out, that wotc and RPGs in genral are still alive. If you all had not decided to go with 3e back then, would you still be in business. Would anyone still be in business in this industry. There is usually not coming a lot out of hindsight. It is deveiving to look at events past and ask yourself: what if.

And still, I think the way the situation right now was handled terribly. And until the new license is out, there is a lot of insecurity and the bad feeling will probably remain if wotc does not go out of their way and make the old or new ogl irrevocable and fair.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

WotC couldn't find any way to profit from the IP. World of Darkness would likely still be the game for the cool kids, and the synonym for Role Playing. A few people still playing using the old books from when they grew up.

that is not even close to a given.

I could as easly say that when they changed to 4e people would complain and storm out, but with no 1 localized alternative 4e would have gone on as people came back... when 5e came out (most likely around 2017 or 2018 it would be to 4e what 2e was to 1e... an evolution. Then with big bang and stranger things and critical roll and the pandemic that 5e would take off as the biggest best game and would to day STILL be having a movie and TV show...

 

[Morrus]

that is not even close to a given.

it’s not a given but it was a possibility. D&D was in the doldrums. WotC approached White Wolf with this proposition. That was the bargain they made with the TTRPG publishing community of the time.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

it’s not a given but it was a possibility. D&D was in the doldrums. WotC approached White Wolf with this proposition. That was the bargain they made with the TTRPG publishing community of the time.

oh I don't doubt it's possible. If we go with "Alternate History" I bet we could as a group find 10 likely out comes of having the OGL or not having the OGL some where wizards is a huge success and some where they failed.

 

[Reynard]

it’s not a given but it was a possibility. D&D was in the doldrums. WotC approached White Wolf with this proposition. That was the bargain they made with the TTRPG publishing community of the time.

It's also impossible to know how 3E would have fared without the OGL. It is entirely possible that it would have been a flash in the pan and then just fizzled and there never even would have been a 4E.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I feel for you. But I guess at that time you were not deceived. The people you dealt with probably acted in good faith. It is not the people back then, but the people today.
Probably someone should have read the fineprint and when everyone updated their licenses to be explicitely irrevocable, it should have been the time to ask them to update their license too.


That said, I think whoncould know 20 years ago how everything is working out, that wotc and RPGs in genral are still alive. If you all had not decided to go with 3e back then, would you still be in business. Would anyone still be in business in this industry. There is usually not coming a lot out of hindsight. It is deveiving to look at events past and ask yourself: what if.

And still, I think the way the situation right now was handled terribly. And until the new license is out, there is a lot of insecurity and the bad feeling will probably remain if wotc does not go out of their way and make the old or new ogl irrevocable and fair.

I just don't see that happening. WotC is convinced they can't do what they want without killing 1.0a, so they won't back down on that point. The only way to see movement on that is for someone to try to use the OGL in their despite and see what happens.

 

[Morrus]

It's also impossible to know how 3E would have fared without the OGL. It is entirely possible that it would have been a flash in the pan and then just fizzled and there never even would have been a 4E.

It also doesn’t matter. It's the deal they made. Who cares whether it worked out for them. I spent $100K on Level Up instead of WOIN based on their promise. I spent 20 years supporting their game and building my business around it based on their promise. I do not care that they regret that promise, and I will not be gaslighted about it. I was there.