Let's make a mass combat system!

[reanjr]

Check out Cry Havoc by Skip Williams from Malhavoc. It's basically the system Monte was told he was not allowed to put in the DMG because it would conflict with their upcoming Chainmail game (which turned out to not be a wargame at all but a skirmish game; at the time they thought it was going to be mass combat).

It's a great system. Very detailed. Covers mixed units, though it can take a bit of planning. You're not going to be able to create a unit of 15 goblins, 25 orcs, and 5 hobgoblins on the fly. But the system does tell you how to do it given a couple of minutes of math.

 

[JimAde]

Check out Cry Havoc by Skip Williams from Malhavoc. It's basically the system Monte was told he was not allowed to put in the DMG because it would conflict with their upcoming Chainmail game (which turned out to not be a wargame at all but a skirmish game; at the time they thought it was going to be mass combat).

It's a great system. Very detailed. Covers mixed units, though it can take a bit of planning. You're not going to be able to create a unit of 15 goblins, 25 orcs, and 5 hobgoblins on the fly. But the system does tell you how to do it given a couple of minutes of math.

I'd heard of Cry Havoc but hadn't actually seen a copy. So I went to the web site and read what was there. Now I'm depressed. It seems to do exactly what I wanted to do, but (I'm sure) better. We appear to be re-inventing the wheel. Anybody here actually used Cry Havoc and still want to continue this exercise?

Reanjr: Thanks for the heads-up. I have to go cry in my coffee now...
Or is that cry havoc in my coffee?

 

[Anubis]

Fields of Blood: The Book of War has an even better mass combat system. Their rulership system leaves a little to be desired (although it can be modified to work easily enough), but the mass combat aspect works.

 

[reanjr]

I'd heard of Cry Havoc but hadn't actually seen a copy. So I went to the web site and read what was there. Now I'm depressed. It seems to do exactly what I wanted to do, but (I'm sure) better. We appear to be re-inventing the wheel. Anybody here actually used Cry Havoc and still want to continue this exercise?

Reanjr: Thanks for the heads-up. I have to go cry in my coffee now...
Or is that cry havoc in my coffee?

I'm sorry

I haven't used it yet, so I'm not sure how it works out. It might suck.

But it does SEEM to be good

 

[JimAde]

I'm sorry

I haven't used it yet, so I'm not sure how it works out. It might suck.

But it does SEEM to be good

Fair enough. If nothing else the work we've done so far gives me a more informed opinion to evaluate other systems. I'm going to shelve this project until I can get a look at Cry Havoc. If it's amazingly wonderful then all well and good. If it needs help, maybe modifying it is the way to go rather than starting from scratch.

I'll continue subscribing to this thread if anyone else has comments about Cry Havoc or, as Anubis suggests, Fields of Blood.

Anubis: Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds like both of these books include rules for running kingdoms and armies and such, but I'm not interested in that. So it doesn't figure into my choice. I'll take care of the political/story events. I'm only looking for mass combat rules.

 

[Anubis]

Anubis: Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds like both of these books include rules for running kingdoms and armies and such, but I'm not interested in that. So it doesn't figure into my choice. I'll take care of the political/story events. I'm only looking for mass combat rules.

Then Fields of Blood is perfect. The war aspect is about the only perfect part of the system. Well, nothing is perfect, but you get the idea. Basically, it kinda goes like Warhammer the way it runs, expect with a lot more detail on units as such and a much lower overhead cost (since you don't need figures, although you can if you want them).

 

[JimAde]

Well I finally got Cry Havoc and I've just finished my initial read-through. It seems to be good, but to my surprise the guts of it wasn't all that much better than what we've done here. They pre-digest some of the numbers so there's less calculation during play (which is the direction we were going in as well). It handles mixed units well (including cavalry) which we were struggling with.

Plus it's already done, which is very nice.

I need to re-read it and then use it before I can form a final opinion. However, I'm pretty sure I'll be using this in my game instead of what we've been working on here. I may incorporate some of the ideas we came up with like unit leaders and individuals being put in danger when the unit is routed, etc.

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and observations. If, after actually using Cry Havoc, I find it's no good, I may be back.