Cap'n Kobold
Hero
How does its action economy look if you assume that the party will be fighting several Mind Flayers as well as the Elder Brain, rather than just the Elder Brain on its own?
D&D 5E Let's Read: Volo's Monsters
DeBasilisk42
First Post
Unless I'm mistaken, the Elder Brain has Plane Shift (like all illithids) as a sort of escape option in case things go South, and I would expect it to shift out if it was clearly in danger.
As written, it's a fairly weak enemy for a group of mid to high evel adventurers and in some ways worse than a regular mind flayer which can at least leverage movement options in a fight. It relies almost completely on minions to protect it from dangerous foes.
As a visual, I recommend removing the tentacle and making its attack telekinetic in nature, maybe even dealing force damage.
Actually, one way to really spice it up might be to give the brain the options of having a permanently active Telekinesis spell (no concentration duration) and give it the options in the spell description in lieu of its tentacle attack legendary action.
As written, it's a fairly weak enemy for a group of mid to high evel adventurers and in some ways worse than a regular mind flayer which can at least leverage movement options in a fight. It relies almost completely on minions to protect it from dangerous foes.
As a visual, I recommend removing the tentacle and making its attack telekinetic in nature, maybe even dealing force damage.
Actually, one way to really spice it up might be to give the brain the options of having a permanently active Telekinesis spell (no concentration duration) and give it the options in the spell description in lieu of its tentacle attack legendary action.
Charles Rampant
Explorer
Adding minions does change things, but you also then run into the rather embarrassing situation that the Elder Brain is basically going to look like a Mind Flayer with some out-of-sequence melee attacks. Is that what we were hoping for from the boss monster of this smartest of enemy races?
The main benefit of the Mind Flayer minions, I suppose, is that the Elder Brain can then trigger its Psychic Link off of their Mind Blasts. And you also end up with an astronomical EXP budget for the fight, when the players might not find it any tougher than just having another Mind Flayer in the mix.
The main benefit of the Mind Flayer minions, I suppose, is that the Elder Brain can then trigger its Psychic Link off of their Mind Blasts. And you also end up with an astronomical EXP budget for the fight, when the players might not find it any tougher than just having another Mind Flayer in the mix.
Demetrios1453
Hero
That's my main issue here too. As an almost god-like being, it should have a CR closer to 20, with the abilities to match. It doesn't matter if it is surrounded by other mind flayers and so on - it should be a tough fight even after everything else in the settlement has been cleared. If I ever run one, I'll be homebrewing it to be somewhat tougher - CR 16 at the least, and maybe up as far as CR 19 - 20.
This is one of the two "boss" creatures in the book where I feel the CR was far too low.
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Psychic Link has a range of 5 miles, thanks to Creature Sense. Also Sense Thoughts lets the Elder brain implant false ideas and emotions into a Psychic Linked targets head. Including the idea "Your head is alright now, and not being messed with in any way shape or form. That voice you hear is normal."
Which means the boss fight with the Elder brain starts when you wander into it's territory and get stunned by a Illithid, or paralyzed, or knocked unconscious. or turned into stone. There is quite a bit of wiggle room here. After this point, the Elder brain is messing with one or more of the party members constantly, while they wander about for what could be hours in it's territory. Perception may not be reality, your friend could be a foe, you might not actually like Ma Gannie's Famous Meat Pies. Heck, the PC's don't even need to be the target of the ability. A familiar, or pet, or hireling could be the target that starts the domino chain.
Perhaps the PC's have an ally that suddenly sends out a Psychic pulse, damaging the party. What will the PC's do when they are suddenly being ambushed by something that could be a Mindflayer in Disguise? How will they feel when they find out they killed their friend and they weren't a mind flayer?
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Chaosmancer
Legend
In addition to Leatherheads excellent thoughts there is one more thing that should be considered.
Elder Brains don't move, which means they are always in their lair.
Their lair actions are:
-Elder Brain casts Wall of Force
-A 120 ft flash of inspiration that gives the target advantage on their next attack, saving throw, or ability check
-A 120 ft lockdown that prevents the being targeted from moving from their space if they fail the save.
Now, the big question is "How big is the Lair", is the Lair the multi-leveled, multi-sectional cathedral the Illithid have placed it in. If it is, then every combat, at count 20, the Elder Brain is affecting the players and the fight.
The biggest thing is the first lair action, Wall of Force. Immune to Damage, Immune to Magic, Immune to being dispelled, and concentration of 10 minutes. The only way through I can see immediately is casting Disintegrate. These means that it is completely possible for your party to be caught in an impossible situation. Unable to reach the brain, they would have to retreat to 70 ft away, while the Brain summons allies to deal with the intruders.
Also, being able to psychic link with any 10 creatures in a 5 mile radius, while you are going through a colony of Illithid Mind Blasting you constantly. At least a few members of the party will probably be psychic links by the time you actually reach this thing, and it will then just use them to kill you, while it is unreachable.
And, if everything goes south, and it is going to be destroyed, it just up and plane shifts away. A massively intelligent creature, with the ability to create powerful mind slaves, who now really wants you dead, hurting, and probably knows all your deep dark secrets.
If the players can reach and hit it, the Elder Brain isn't going to last long. But if it starts working on them as soon as they are within even 2 miles of it, and it makes use of Wall of Force to divide them in combats and protect itself... It is going to be a massive challenge for any party I think, unless they are well-informed and well-prepared.
Elder Brains don't move, which means they are always in their lair.
Their lair actions are:
-Elder Brain casts Wall of Force
-A 120 ft flash of inspiration that gives the target advantage on their next attack, saving throw, or ability check
-A 120 ft lockdown that prevents the being targeted from moving from their space if they fail the save.
Now, the big question is "How big is the Lair", is the Lair the multi-leveled, multi-sectional cathedral the Illithid have placed it in. If it is, then every combat, at count 20, the Elder Brain is affecting the players and the fight.
The biggest thing is the first lair action, Wall of Force. Immune to Damage, Immune to Magic, Immune to being dispelled, and concentration of 10 minutes. The only way through I can see immediately is casting Disintegrate. These means that it is completely possible for your party to be caught in an impossible situation. Unable to reach the brain, they would have to retreat to 70 ft away, while the Brain summons allies to deal with the intruders.
Also, being able to psychic link with any 10 creatures in a 5 mile radius, while you are going through a colony of Illithid Mind Blasting you constantly. At least a few members of the party will probably be psychic links by the time you actually reach this thing, and it will then just use them to kill you, while it is unreachable.
And, if everything goes south, and it is going to be destroyed, it just up and plane shifts away. A massively intelligent creature, with the ability to create powerful mind slaves, who now really wants you dead, hurting, and probably knows all your deep dark secrets.
If the players can reach and hit it, the Elder Brain isn't going to last long. But if it starts working on them as soon as they are within even 2 miles of it, and it makes use of Wall of Force to divide them in combats and protect itself... It is going to be a massive challenge for any party I think, unless they are well-informed and well-prepared.
Saint_Ridley
Villager
Indeed. My plan is to wait and see what we get in terms of a close-to-final draft psion telepath, and just slam all of the abilities of the level 20 class onto it. On top of everything it already has. And also probably more HD. And, of course, nasty advantage taking of its psychic link ability. It's like 3.5 Mindsight on steroids.
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Charles Rampant
Explorer
It just seems to me that all of these ideas make the Mind Flayer colony interesting to attack, but do nothing to make the Elder Brain itself a fun encounter. Let's take a look at the next entry!
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The Ulitharid is a fairly simple creature at its root, a boss encounter version of the Mind Flayer. It is a little more complicated than its lesser brethren, but overall is essentially an upgrade, not a whole new creature.
The book image is interestingly detailed, but doesn’t betray the sheer size of the Ulitharid (at Large), and it is considerably more gangly looking than its normal kin from the Monster Manual art. In fact, the art for the Mind Flayer is really the problem with this Ulitharid art - the Monster Manual image is just so much more interesting and imposing.
Occasionally a tadpole will turn, not into a Mind Flayer, but into an Ulitharid. This results in some changes which seem to be mostly based on bee ecology, as now the colony will have two leaders: the Elder Brain, and the Ulitharid, which is an Elder-Brain-in-waiting. We are told that the relationship between the two can run the whole range between co-operative to hostile, which gives you a lot of flexibility in how you use an Ulitharid. For example, your players could arrive in the colony to find it ruinous, with the survivors of the two factions still fighting amongst the rubble. Alternatively, the Ulitharid could be the right-hand-flayer of the Elder Brain, giving you a mid-story boss monster that is more mobile than its master, yet shares many of its traits.
The staff carried by the Ulitharid is pretty cool; made of black metal (just like the staff from Terry Pratchett’s Sorcery), it has the ultimate function of allowing the Ulitharid’s transformation into an Elder Brain. The text here does not mention where the staff comes from, but presumably it takes crafting and a lot of effort by the colony; an Ulitharid that is trying to retrieve its staff might be another plot option, with a series of museum curators and private collectors suffering strokes as it tracks down its lost item.
The Ulitharid is basically a slightly tougher Mind Flayer, with a couple of the Elder Brain telepathy options added on. Its innate spellcasting is more robust, with Mass Suggestion and Feeblemind particularly catching my eye; the new spells give it some nasty options, especially when you realise how nasty the combination of Feeblemind (become int 1) and Mind Blast (make int save or be stunned) is. That combination used on the party Fighter or Barbarian might well take the character in question out of the fight for good. The Ulitharid also gets a couple spells that help with a leadership role - Scrying, Project Image - which combine with the Creature Sense and Psionic Hub to demonstrate how it could manipulate humanoids and other Mind Flayers into doing its will.
The combat options of the Ulitharid are basically just the same as those for the Mind Flayer, albeit with a slight boost in damage, to hit rolls, and save DCs as befits the increased CR. It is worth noting that the Ulitharid, like the Mind Flayer, is not the most robust of opponents - I used a pair of Mind Flayers last week, and was surprised at how quickly they fell once the players focused on them - so you may want to add something like a pair of thrall-Ogres as meatshields, if you plan for the fight to last a while. In other words, the Illithids are a bit of a glass cannon race, so prepare the combats accordingly.
I’m much more impressed with the Ulitharid than I am with the Elder Brain. Despite it being much lower CR than its master, the Ulitharid just seems a much more interesting combatant, and one that can radically change how a combat goes, using its increased psionic might. In addition, it has more story potential attached to it, though to be fair the Elder Brain is going to be intrinsically attached to any Mind Flayer storyline that you devise, rather than being a free agent, so that point is a bit unfair. Regardless, I feel that the Elder Brain is just part of a dungeon design - the last room, the explanation for why the players are under constant psionic attack - whereas the Ulitharid feels like a monster that can drive plots by itself.
Sent from my iPad using EN World mobile app
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The Ulitharid is a fairly simple creature at its root, a boss encounter version of the Mind Flayer. It is a little more complicated than its lesser brethren, but overall is essentially an upgrade, not a whole new creature.
The book image is interestingly detailed, but doesn’t betray the sheer size of the Ulitharid (at Large), and it is considerably more gangly looking than its normal kin from the Monster Manual art. In fact, the art for the Mind Flayer is really the problem with this Ulitharid art - the Monster Manual image is just so much more interesting and imposing.
Occasionally a tadpole will turn, not into a Mind Flayer, but into an Ulitharid. This results in some changes which seem to be mostly based on bee ecology, as now the colony will have two leaders: the Elder Brain, and the Ulitharid, which is an Elder-Brain-in-waiting. We are told that the relationship between the two can run the whole range between co-operative to hostile, which gives you a lot of flexibility in how you use an Ulitharid. For example, your players could arrive in the colony to find it ruinous, with the survivors of the two factions still fighting amongst the rubble. Alternatively, the Ulitharid could be the right-hand-flayer of the Elder Brain, giving you a mid-story boss monster that is more mobile than its master, yet shares many of its traits.
The staff carried by the Ulitharid is pretty cool; made of black metal (just like the staff from Terry Pratchett’s Sorcery), it has the ultimate function of allowing the Ulitharid’s transformation into an Elder Brain. The text here does not mention where the staff comes from, but presumably it takes crafting and a lot of effort by the colony; an Ulitharid that is trying to retrieve its staff might be another plot option, with a series of museum curators and private collectors suffering strokes as it tracks down its lost item.
The Ulitharid is basically a slightly tougher Mind Flayer, with a couple of the Elder Brain telepathy options added on. Its innate spellcasting is more robust, with Mass Suggestion and Feeblemind particularly catching my eye; the new spells give it some nasty options, especially when you realise how nasty the combination of Feeblemind (become int 1) and Mind Blast (make int save or be stunned) is. That combination used on the party Fighter or Barbarian might well take the character in question out of the fight for good. The Ulitharid also gets a couple spells that help with a leadership role - Scrying, Project Image - which combine with the Creature Sense and Psionic Hub to demonstrate how it could manipulate humanoids and other Mind Flayers into doing its will.
The combat options of the Ulitharid are basically just the same as those for the Mind Flayer, albeit with a slight boost in damage, to hit rolls, and save DCs as befits the increased CR. It is worth noting that the Ulitharid, like the Mind Flayer, is not the most robust of opponents - I used a pair of Mind Flayers last week, and was surprised at how quickly they fell once the players focused on them - so you may want to add something like a pair of thrall-Ogres as meatshields, if you plan for the fight to last a while. In other words, the Illithids are a bit of a glass cannon race, so prepare the combats accordingly.
I’m much more impressed with the Ulitharid than I am with the Elder Brain. Despite it being much lower CR than its master, the Ulitharid just seems a much more interesting combatant, and one that can radically change how a combat goes, using its increased psionic might. In addition, it has more story potential attached to it, though to be fair the Elder Brain is going to be intrinsically attached to any Mind Flayer storyline that you devise, rather than being a free agent, so that point is a bit unfair. Regardless, I feel that the Elder Brain is just part of a dungeon design - the last room, the explanation for why the players are under constant psionic attack - whereas the Ulitharid feels like a monster that can drive plots by itself.
Sent from my iPad using EN World mobile app
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
It's also useful against parties who like hirelings and minions. (Conjured minions unfortunately vanish when reduced to zero HP, so it doesn't work there, but it would work against a Beastmaster's pet IIRC unless there is a humanoid-only restriction. AFB.)
