"Let's rest now"

[OnlineDM]

I've been pretty lucky to not have too many groups trying extended rests in silly places. It's pretty much impossible in a setting like Living Forgotten Realms, of course, but my Friday night group has never been unrealistic about finding a good spot to rest in almost a year and a half of gaming in an ongoing War of the Burning Sky campaign.

I did have this happen once for my in-person group in the first adventure I ran for them. They had fought through three battles and then decided they wanted to hole up inside the guard tower of the orcs' lair to get some rest, having slaughtered about half of the orcs. Okay...

I decided to have the orcs come at them from all sides partway through the rest (letting them regain a surge or two each). The defensive position in the tower helped the PCs, but the orcs knew about a secret passage that the PCs didn't.

In the end they survived, but I easily could have wiped them out. It was only our second session, though, and that seemed like a bad move for me as a new GM with the group. If this group were to try something similar in the future, I'd be tempted to send overwhelming forces at them.

 

[MarkB]

The problem with the "you can't rest here" solution is that the game provides several natural ways around it. In our 3e games, resting was rarely problematic once the wizard was high enough level for his Rope Trick spells to last out the duration of a full night's rest, and there were other spells and magic items which offered similar solutions.

4e provides an equivalent in the Exodus Knife, which pretty much duplicates Rope Trick's extradimensional cubby-hole whilst doing away with the need for rope-climbing.

 

[korjik]

I think they thought they were majorly hurting. I was running The Slaying Stone as a race against time - no extended rests - but the PCs went in at 2nd level, and I halve monster hp (though I also make encounters tougher). To succeed the PCs had to avoid unnecessary fights, get the Stone, and get out before the goblins woke up.

The PCs had the Stone and just had to get out of town, they had 2 hours before nightfall, but they were low on Surges and would have liked to extended-rest. Only that would have had them trapped by several hundred angry goblins.

They did decide to press on, survived two more battles including the climactic showdown with their orc rivals, made it out... then again discussed whether to take an extended rest (defender was on 1 healing surge). I pointed out they were only 6 miles from their employer's house and could be there right after sunset, so they did keep going and completed the mission.

In the old days running 1e or 3e I would never have been so kind, but I think 4e is a bit harsher with the healing surge mechanic - the players have genuine reasons to seek a rest/recharge, whereas typically with 3e they'd try to rest whenever the Wizard had cast a few spells.

I dont think this was a 'Let's Rest' moment so much as a 'We didnt plan our op' moment. I am like Dannyalcatraz, I plan the extraction before and during the operation. On a good op, that means that once you get the mcguffin, it should only be a matter of running fast enough to get to safety.

It also does seem like they didnt have a good handle on what was around them and what they needed to do. Did they know that all they had to do was hike half a dozen miles to get to safety when they discussed resting the second time?

I do think that 4e is alot harsher than 3e about healing. It is fairly hard to get to zero surges and not be able to rest, but if you do, there is very little that can be done to stretch out some more healing. I think it is actually a much harder stop to the adventuring day then 3e's running out of spells, as the 3e casters could still make some attacks, no matter how feeble they might be. In 4e, once the surges are gone, and any extra powers are burned, you arent healing at all, and that is alot more of a penalty to the damage soakers in a group.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I do think that 4e is alot harsher than 3e about healing. It is fairly hard to get to zero surges and not be able to rest, but if you do, there is very little that can be done to stretch out some more healing. I think it is actually a much harder stop to the adventuring day then 3e's running out of spells, as the 3e casters could still make some attacks, no matter how feeble they might be. In 4e, once the surges are gone, and any extra powers are burned, you arent healing at all, and that is alot more of a penalty to the damage soakers in a group.

OTOH, it is almost impossible to run a party out of mystical resources in 4Ed.

 

[Mort]

OTOH, it is almost impossible to run a party out of mystical resources in 4Ed.

Waves of monsters are murder on 4e PCs, and will do just that. If you want to wear a 4e party down to the bone, throw 2 or 3 consecutive encounters without a short rest (or more if you're feeling nasty) at them. In addition to everything else, there's a true sense of panic as PCs get knocked down because death saves are cumulative and 3 failed ones means you're dead.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You'd still have At-Wills. Not much, I know, but good tactics & synergies within the party can make even those meager resources devastating.

 

[Mort]

You'd still have At-Wills. Not much, I know, but good tactics & synergies within the party can make even those meager resources devastating.

If you're counting at-wills as mystical resources (which, yeah, technically they can be), then yes it is practically impossible for the party to be out of mystical resources all arcane and devine characters would have to be down or dead.

And frankly, a group that can be devastating with at-wills is good enough at tactics etc. that they would likely be devastating in any version of D&D and likely other games as well.

My point was that a 4e party will be just as challenged, if not more so, if not allowed to rest - though for maximum challenge the encounters have to be close together.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Our group has pretty much put extended rests on the DM side of the screen.

 

[IronWolf]

The problem with the "you can't rest here" solution is that the game provides several natural ways around it. In our 3e games, resting was rarely problematic once the wizard was high enough level for his Rope Trick spells to last out the duration of a full night's rest, and there were other spells and magic items which offered similar solutions.

4e provides an equivalent in the Exodus Knife, which pretty much duplicates Rope Trick's extradimensional cubby-hole whilst doing away with the need for rope-climbing.

If the DM keeps the environment moving even these aren't foolproof though. Sure, they are going to get their 8 hours of rest and recoup spells, but their current threat depending on intelligence may now all be on high alert, doubled their guard, called up reinforcements, any number of things that could make the decision to rest for 8 hours have an impact.

 

[S'mon]

Just checked on Exodus Knife:

Exodus KnifeLevel 12 Uncommon
This insubstantial silver blade appears to cut through solid walls.
Wondrous Item 13,000 gp
Power Daily (Standard Action)
When you use the exodus knife to trace a doorway onto a solid object, it opens a portal into an empty extradimensional space 4 squares wide, 4 squares high, and 4 squares long.
While the door is open, anyone can enter, see into, or affect the extradimensional space. Only creatures inside the space can open or close the door (a minor action). Once closed, the door becomes invisible to anyone outside the extradimensional space. Creatures on the inside of the closed door can see out, but those outside can't see in. Creatures on one side of the closed door cannot affect creatures on the other side.
The extradimensional space lasts for 8 hours. Any creatures still in the space when the effect ends reappear in the closest unoccupied squares outside the door.

Heh, that's a long way from 3e's universally available, 2nd level Rope Trick spell!