Let's Talk About "Intended Playstyle"

[NOTE: This is another in my ongoing musing threads meant to help me think about my Bucket List RPG. The purpose of the discussion is mainly to see how other folks feel about the subject an dhow it impacts their play and design choices.]

I feel like "Intended Playstyle" has fallen out of the lexicon recently, but it used to be all the rage. It is probably not even a particularly accurate phrase, but it is close enough to at least kick off a discussion, one hopes. The more recent term is "opinionated" I think.

In any case, here is what I mean: some games are intended to be toolkits. You are supposed to use them to build the game you and your group want to play. Sometimes these are "generic" systems, but other times they are more focused games that still allow you to "do whatever" with. But other games really want you to play that game in a certain way. The game is built -- mechanically, aesthetically, and even commercially -- to make you play it a certain way. And some games claim to want you to play it a certain way, and then stop you from doing so with its own rules and mechanics. I'm thinking how Vampire: The Masquerade whispered it wanted you to play Interview With The Vampire, but gave you the tools to play Blade instead. There are, of course, other examples, and well as counter-arguments to the V:tM one.

It seems common for newer games to tell you exactly what you are meant to do with them: not just how they are to be played, but what sorts of stories the game allows you to play. You can't really use Blades in the Dark for regular fantasy adventures in Duskvol without deeply hacking the system. Blades' intended playstyle is baked in. Compare that to Shadowdark, which is very opinionated in its presentation but is trivially easy to play with a heroic tone and outside the dungeon. As one look at the Shadowdark Compatible section on DTRPG will show, you can use SD for nearly anything. Its intended playstyle is really just a vibe.

So when thinking about making a game, I have to think about whether I want to build something with a tight focus and a strongly enforced intended playstyle, or if I want to make something malleable and unconstraining. I think strong foci give modern games real identities, but by extensions inevitably limit their reach.

What do you think about the topic of "intended playstyle"? Or, "opinionated" games, if you will? What is a good example of a game, in your opinion, that had a strong intended playstyle and managed to support it in its overall design? What ones tried and failed? Is it a worthy design goal? Why, or why not?
I think both kinds of games are good, and I'm glad both exist (although I prefer the toolkit style). I would only pick up and play an "opinionated" game (I like that term!) if I was really into whatever that game was about. I actually can't think of a specific game I'd be interested in that truly couldn't be played in a way outside of its intended playstyle without major modification.
 

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This is a good analysis of Blades. I find that I want to like BitD (and Scum & Villainy) but I struggle to actually do so. Or, put another way, I really like reading them, but can't get into the groove of playing them. Mouse Guard (Torchbearer) and, to a lesser extent, PbtA games fall into the same category. I'm eagerly awaiting my hard copies of Stonetop, but I think it will be bathroom reading (TMI, I know) and not something I'll actually play.
Yup. If I wanted to play any genre of game that they make a PbtA for (and often do), I would do it with a toolkit system I enjoy more.
 

I have mixed feelings at best about overly "opinionated" games, but I have seen some that seemed to do a credibly job of what they were trying for: in the supernatural hunters vein, both Monster of the Week and Chill 3e seemed to do what they set out to do reasonably effectively.

I don't have a real counterexample (at least of recent vintage) because I'm usually not that interested in games that drill down quite that hard to what experience they want; I usually want more flex. So I haven't seen enough of them to know of a particular failure case.
 

I have mixed feelings at best about overly "opinionated" games, but I have seen some that seemed to do a credibly job of what they were trying for: in the supernatural hunters vein, both Monster of the Week and Chill 3e seemed to do what they set out to do reasonably effectively.

I don't have a real counterexample (at least of recent vintage) because I'm usually not that interested in games that drill down quite that hard to what experience they want; I usually want more flex. So I haven't seen enough of them to know of a particular failure case.
Monster of the Week is the only game of that sort I have played and enjoyed, twice in fact. Still not a fan of the system, and would never run it.
 

Yup. If I wanted to play any genre of game that they make a PbtA for (and often do), I would do it with a toolkit system I enjoy more.

I agree, and yet....I really would like to play a Star Wars kind of game, but I haven't seen a system that, in my mind, "works" for Star Wars.
 

I think the more interested you are in having a strong creative vision and paring that in with a mechanical setup that rewards it, the more your game will have an inherent intended play style that it suits being open and frank in the ruleset with. I think we're seeing this more and more in a wide variety of games (Daggerheart and Draw Steel! both come to mind in recent publication) that wear their heart on their sleeve so to say - because the designers know that while players are very good at playing games and can make just about anything work, things are best if you understand what the designers shaped the game to accomplish.

You don't have to couple premise nearly so tightly as Blades or Stonetop or Apocalypse World & etc to be open and clear with your intent if your mechanics follow through. Conversely, if you say a lot of stuff in GM guidance or whatever but the rules themselves don't seem to care about that, you're just pontificating.

As an example, Daggerheart is clear that it's been built mechanically & structurally as a high-fantasy heroic game around telling dramatic stories. There's a lot of Player and GM guidance on top of that, but even the base mechanics of the game (the ancestries and class powers, the Death Moves, the way HP thresholds and armor work, Hope & Fear, etc) reinforce it. You can try doing other stuff with it, but you'll either be just freeform RPing (like so many 5e games that drift hard) or it'll be actively fighting you at every turn.

Likewise Draw Steel! will certainly let you play a game focused mainly around not using the system (as a long Reddit post suggested) and have a great time, but you're just kinda... not really playing the game at that point?
 

I agree, and yet....I really would like to play a Star Wars kind of game, but I haven't seen a system that, in my mind, "works" for Star Wars.

If you want to play Movies / Shows Star Wars with folks who are all onboard and into working together to craft exciting scenes mediated by the mechanics, S&V is fantastic. Some really good Star Wars skins/hacks of it out there (beyond the obvious base inspo baked in). Stuff like Mando, or the original movies, or Andor? Perfect.
 

I agree, and yet....I really would like to play a Star Wars kind of game, but I haven't seen a system that, in my mind, "works" for Star Wars.
I guess you and I want different things from Star Wars then (not really a surprise) 😉. I want to create the physical/supernatural setting of Star Wars and everything in it through (at least roughly) simulationist mechanics, and I have several games available that accomplish that goal, to different degrees and in different ways. What do you want out of a Star Wars RPG?
 

I guess you and I want different things from Star Wars then (not really a surprise) 😉. I want to create the physical/supernatural setting of Star Wars and everything in it through (at least roughly) simulationist mechanics, and I have several games available that accomplish that goal, to different degrees and in different ways. What do you want out of a Star Wars RPG?

Ironically, I want something very different from what I'm looking for in fantasy RPGs. I don't want to kick open the door, kill stuff, and take their treasure. So hit points, attack modifiers, weapon ranges and damage, skill systems, levels....none of that interests me.

And I think one of the reasons for that is that I can suspend disbelief about getting hit by a great sword or being bitten by a dragon, but lightsabers don't do 2d12 damage (or whatever it is)....they are vorpal swords that always roll 20. I want to play a game that includes Jedi AND non-Jedi (we've talked about this before) in a way that let's everybody shine, without nerfing Jedi and lightsabers.

All of which points to Scum & Villainy as the game I should be playing, except like I said before I just can't grok that approach.
 

What do you think about the topic of "intended playstyle"? Or, "opinionated" games, if you will? What is a good example of a game, in your opinion, that had a strong intended playstyle and managed to support it in its overall design? What ones tried and failed? Is it a worthy design goal? Why, or why not?
If the intended playstyle can be cogently presented AND the rules support it (or at a minimum, don't make it hard to do), I'm all for it.
After all, I loved running Burning Empires with a very quirky scene budget and rolls per scene budget.
Mouse Guard, likewise, has a scene and rolls budget.
Houses of the Blooded and Blood & Honor are about narrative control... and that shapes how play proceeds.
 

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