Let's Talk About "Intended Playstyle"

[pemerton]

If you play BW a different way, you are literally doing it wrong according to what the rulebook lays out as the procedures you are supposed to use when playing BW. I think the rulebook even states that not following the procedures in the rulebook means you are playing it wrong. It has a "positive reinforcement" approach to help incentivize the players as there is a very specific form of XP that can be earned, but only by overcoming challenges tied to a PCs goals. Said XP is integral to how certain aspects of PC advancement works so missing out on gaining said XP is a big deal.

There's also the "negative reinforcement", which I think has at least two aspects to it:

(1) For the player, if you don't earn artha - which requires play that engages your Beliefs, Instincts and Traits in the relevant ways - then you can't really have any hope of success;

(2) For the GM, if the players don't have goals that inform (i) scene-framing, and (ii) intent-and-task resolution, then you can't really do your job.

 

[Reynard]

Again, opinionated means more than just having an opinion. And I'm just going to leave it at that.

Terms have meaning in their context. That you refuse to acknowledge that meaning in order to argue with the term instead of discuss the subject is on you.

 

[Aldarc]

I feel like "Intended Playstyle" has fallen out of the lexicon recently, but it used to be all the rage. It is probably not even a particularly accurate phrase, but it is close enough to at least kick off a discussion, one hopes. The more recent term is "opinionated" I think.

FWIW, I don't think that "opinionated" and "intended playstyle" are synonymous. There are unopinionated games with intended playstyles. It's just that opinionated games tend to also have intended playstyles.

 

[Campbell]

BW from everything you've said here is very restrictive because of its tight focus. It puts a lot of pressure on the Players to constantly be coming up with stuff they want to do, which is is creatively exhausting for a lot of Players IME and hard to sustain. And it places severe restrictions on what the GM can include, because it makes them essentially (from my perspective) an employee who works for the players and is discouraged from making a living world (because everything has to relate directly to the Players and their "story"), something which many sandbox GMs greatly enjoy, myself included.

If you want what BW offers, and very importantly nothing else ever out of your game, it sounds wonderful. If you want a world to explore and engage with that has a presence outside of your character, or you're a GM who enjoys worldbuilding without having to be exclusively reactive, I'm not sure BW is the best game for you.

Again, based on what you're saying here. I've not read or played Burning Wheel.

So, Burning Wheel is not particularly narrow in terms of premise. As long as characters have beliefs they are willing to fight for you're golden.

In terms of playstyle running a trad game in the way you are intended to run Burning Wheel means ignoring basically all the instructions on how to run and play it and the mechanics often get in your way (resource scheduling and rules that expect deliberate task resolution).

The same is true for trying to run Burning Wheel in a more trad playstyle. You are ignoring most of the instructions and mechanics will often get in your way.

To say one is narrower than the other given this seems silly.

 

[Reynard]

FWIW, I don't think that "opinionated" and "intended playstyle" are synonymous. There are unopinionated games with intended playstyles. It's just that opinionated games tend to also have intended playstyles.

What would you consider an example of a game with a strong intended playstyle that is not opinionated?

 

[Aldarc]

What would you consider an example of a game with a strong intended playstyle that is not opinionated?

Forbidden Lands by Free League comes to mind, but there are likely others. There is a way you are supposed to play, an intended playstyle cultivated from the game and its mechanics, and a play process. It's instructional, but, in general, the authors' opinions are, IMHO, fairly muted in the text. I never really get a sense of "opinionation" in most Free League games.

 

[Scribe]

I think getting hung up on what 'opinionated' means in this context is pretty peak online behavior....

To answer the question, I want a system that through its design, says something. So I would assume thats a yes, I want an opinionated system.

 

[Reynard]

Forbidden Lands by Free League comes to mind, but there are likely others. There is a way you are supposed to play, an intended playstyle cultivated from the game and its mechanics, and a play process. It's instructional, but, in general, the authors' opinions are, IMHO, fairly muted in the text. I never really get a sense of "opinionation" in most Free League games.

The "author's opinions" is not at all what "opinionated" means in this context.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, Burning Wheel is not particularly narrow in terms of premise. As long as characters have beliefs they are willing to fight for you're golden.

In terms of playstyle running a trad game in the way you are intended to run Burning Wheel means ignoring basically all the instructions on how to run and play it and the mechanics often get in your way (resource scheduling and rules that expect deliberate task resolution).

The same is true for trying to run Burning Wheel in a more trad playstyle. You are ignoring most of the instructions and mechanics will often get in your way.

To say one is narrower than the other given this seems silly.

I don't understand your second paragraph. Are you saying I can't run D&D as a sandbox, like I do all the time, without ignoring all instructions on how to play it?

 

[Micah Sweet]

What would you consider an example of a game with a strong intended playstyle that is not opinionated?

The vast majority of super hero RPGs that aren't heavily narrativist (Mutants & Masterminds, Marvel Multiverse, FASERIP). You can play those games more or less however you like, no matter what they say.