Let's talk about "plot", "story", and "play to find out."

[TwoSix]

There is a meaningful difference between excluding dragonborn from play because you do not like them and having an issue with the actual engine of a game. If you perceive the game not to cater to your preferred playstyle then you effectively are excluded.

Now one can attempt to make adjustments to the engine in the hopes of making it more suitable to one's playstyle, but that may require some time and may bring about its own frustrations.

Or you can, ya know, expand your preferences.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or you can, ya know, expand your preferences.

So you can decide to have different preferences? Is this a serious response?

 

[TwoSix]

So you can decide to have different preferences? Is this a serious response?

I mean, is the idea that your preferences can’t grow and change actually a serious response?

I mean, when 4e came out, I didn’t initially like it. It was explanations on how to approach these mechanics differently on these forums (primarily from @pemerton) that taught me how to approach games from different lenses, which expanded my preferences.

I didn’t suddenly dislike games I liked before (my preferences didn’t shift), but a host of games I previously didn’t care for suddenly became much more interesting.

I’m a firm believer that we can expand the circle of things we enjoy if we approach them with an open mind.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I mean, when 4e came out, I didn’t initially like it. It was explanations on how to approach these mechanics differently on these forums (primarily from @pemerton) that taught me how to approach games from different lenses, which expanded my preferences.

That was me too.
I had a love/hate relationship with the system.
One of my issues was that I absolutely loved the narrative flavour of the powers, but absolutely disliked the locked in once/encounter or once/day part of it - specifically with martial powers. Now that same system but with a different presentation exists within 5e but I managed to tinker-&-playtest enough so that we found a solution that works for me.

 

[soviet]

So you can decide to have different preferences? Is this a serious response?

Unless you were born with those preferences, yes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, is the idea that your preferences can’t grow and change actually a serious response?

I mean, when 4e came out, I didn’t initially like it. It was explanations on how to approach these mechanics differently on these forums (primarily from @pemerton) that taught me how to approach games from different lenses, which expanded my preferences.

I didn’t suddenly dislike games I liked before (my preferences didn’t shift), but a host of games I previously didn’t care for suddenly became much more interesting.

I’m a firm believer that we can expand the circle of things we enjoy if we approach them with an open mind.

Well, I spent over a year running and playing 4e, and at the end of it I enjoyed it less, as the things I didn't care for about it bothered me more and more. My experience with PBtA games didn't lead to liking how they work either (although I can enjoy short games of Monster of the Week). And my experience with PF2 didn't work for me. So it can go the other way just as legitimately IMO. So just deciding to like something you don't seems naive to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That was me too.
I had a love/hate relationship with the system.
One of my issues was that I absolutely loved the narrative flavour of the powers, but absolutely disliked the locked in once/encounter or once/day part of it - specifically with martial powers. Now that same system but with a different presentation exists within 5e but I managed to tinker-&-playtest enough so that we found a solution that works for me.

See, neither the narrative flavor nor the codified gamism of 4e work for me. It just doesn't do what I want D&D, or RPGs in general, to do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Unless you were born with those preferences, yes.

My point is that the answer to dealing with something you like changing to something you don't is not just deciding to stop not liking it. Not in my experience. Preferences changing is more organic than that, and doesn't always happen. And it shouldn't have to, and no good comes from judging those who don't.

 

[TwoSix]

Well, I spent over a year running and playing 4e, and at the end of it I enjoyed it less, as the things I didn't care for about it bothered me more and more. My experience with PBtA games didn't lead to liking how they work either (although I can enjoy short games of Monster of the Week). And my experience with PF2 didn't work for me. So it can go the other way just as legitimately IMO. So just deciding to like something you don't seems naive to me.

I think many more people can become appreciators of things they don't like with some effort. But it's simply that many people don't judge that change to be worth the effort.

Like, I grew up as a very picky eater. It's something I still struggle with; there are a lot of foods I don't enjoy despite making consistent efforts to try new and varied options. But my palate has slowly expanded over the decades with repeated exposures to new textures and flavors.

So maybe it is naive to think that people can learn to accommodate new approaches. But naivete and optimism are often the same action, just from different lenses.

 

[soviet]

My point is that the answer to dealing with something you like changing to something you don't is not just deciding to stop not liking it. Not in my experience. Preferences changing is more organic than that, and doesn't always happen. And it shouldn't have to, and no good comes from judging those who don't.

Nothing you like has changed even slightly. Your books still exist. What's happened is that something new has come out. You're not obliged to buy it. They're not obliged to cater to you. Engage with it and see if you like it, or don't.