D&D 5E Level 20 Class Competition Ideas

[Hohige]

By telling you all the flaws in your character all that does it let you improve it. But I will give you this one for free.

After you lose initiative your own bottle stops you from casting Subtle Counterspell. Nothing in the description says you can see through the smoke.

If we pretend you don't have the bottle, how do you counter subtle Time Stop?

With 2 to 5 turns to cast other spells, you will end up being defeated before you even get to go. There are too many combinations of spells after this Time Stop to explain how you would end up defeated. Improved Invisibility removes subtle counterspell from the equation. Now you are a guy standing there for 1 to 4 more turns while other spells are cast.

Still, nothing here can really harm the sorcerer.

 

[Helldritch]

Not allowing certain spells that the casters would always have up is putting a serious handicap on the casters that rely on basic precautions for their survivability. No wizard able to cast simulacrum and contingency would ever start a duel. Likewise, not allowing a familliar or a steed to a Paladin is strange. What about a beast master? The goal of such a competition is to see which class would be the best in a duel. Such a duel implies some rules, but should not lessen the power of a class.

Rules should be more about what would disqualify a contestant, such as leaving the arena, what is leaving the arena and if such spells such as etheralness, planeshift and even blink would be considered leaving the arena. The starting distance of duels should also be considered.

In brief, removing any capacity that would normally be made as a daily routine should not be removed. Otherwise you will not have a true picture of the power of a class.

I know that this vision is not popular as a lot of people will consider that this is favoring the wizards and sorcerers in a huge way, but this is a sad truth. Casters were and are still stronger at high level than a martial class. Especially if they win initiative and even more if they are out of range.

A cleric requesting a miracle would pretty much win immediately too as it would bring a solar to his help. Again, if said cleric wins the initiative.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Not allowing certain spells that the casters would always have up is putting a serious handicap on the casters that rely on basic precautions for their survivability. No wizard able to cast simulacrum and contingency would ever start a duel. Likewise, not allowing a familliar or a steed to a Paladin is strange. What about a beast master? The goal of such a competition is to see which class would be the best in a duel. Such a duel implies some rules, but should not lessen the power of a class.

Rules should be more about what would disqualify a contestant, such as leaving the arena, what is leaving the arena and if such spells such as etheralness, planeshift and even blink would be considered leaving the arena. The starting distance of duels should also be considered.

In brief, removing any capacity that would normally be made as a daily routine should not be removed. Otherwise you will not have a true picture of the power of a class.

I know that this vision is not popular as a lot of people will consider that this is favoring the wizards and sorcerers in a huge way, but this is a sad truth. Casters were and are still stronger at high level than a martial class. Especially if they win initiative and even more if they are out of range.

A cleric requesting a miracle would pretty much win immediately too as it would bring a solar to his help. Again, if said cleric wins the initiative.

I agree completely, but as I said, with Simulacrums, Divination Wizards win. No contest. Not ever. Might as well close the thread in that case. (Sorcerers would come in second place, also due to a twinned simulacrum.)

Others have suggested removing magic items. That just supports casters even more (making Divination Wizards pretty much impossible to defeat).

In limiting the Wizard, you have to limit others.

For things like Divine Intervention, DM fiat plays a role. But if you look at Divine Intervention again, part of it is:

Since this says "the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate." copying a spell would be useful, but hardly an auto-win for Clerics.

I already posted rules about leaving the arena as well as rules for determining encounter distance and the map used for the arena itself.

 

[FarBeyondC]

If you were talking about 20th level PCs in most games worlds, yes, a Wizard will have up to 4 simulacrums (the maximum) and a Sorcerer 2 (his maximum). A MC Sorcerer/Wizard could have a lot more (like 30!).

How are you getting those maximums?

I agree completely, but as I said, with Simulacrums, Divination Wizards win. No contest. Not ever. Might as well close the thread in that case. (Sorcerers would come in second place, also due to a twinned simulacrum.)

Is the sorcerer twining themselves and their opponent during the fight? Because by the rules they don't have access to another person to twin before the fight and you can't make two copies of yourself through twinning.

 

[Hohige]

I agree completely, but as I said, with Simulacrums, Divination Wizards win. No contest. Not ever. Might as well close the thread in that case. (Sorcerers would come in second place, also due to a twinned simulacrum.)

Others have suggested removing magic items. That just supports casters even more (making Divination Wizards pretty much impossible to defeat).

In limiting the Wizard, you have to limit others.

For things like Divine Intervention, DM fiat plays a role. But if you look at Divine Intervention again, part of it is:
View attachment 122824

Since this says "the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate." copying a spell would be useful, but hardly an auto-win for Clerics.

I already posted rules about leaving the arena as well as rules for determining encounter distance and the map used for the arena itself.

Time Preparation??
Remember that "You must see" is the weaknesses of Portent. It's easily countered with Staff of Swarming insect's insect cloud

With time preparation, the winner is Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Glyph of Warding x2 day, Storing Conjure Celestial. Chooses a Coualt. It avoids concentration.
Subtle Wish for upcasted Planar Binding and go. You control a Coualt for 1 year and a day.
Repeat.
with 20k. you can do it 100 times.

100 Coualt that change shape into Counterflux Blastseeker humanoid for free counterspell and dispel. A lot of versatility here.

Greater Restouration counters hard Feeblemind.

Each Coualt is under effect to Extended Seeming spell to deceive the enemy that don't know who is the Sorcerer.

The Sorcerer enter on extended Etherealness.
Action for reappper
Quicken Spell.



It's becoming hard for "No contest, close thread diviner"
Please, It's better no prep time for balance.

 

[DND_Reborn]

How are you getting those maximums?

Is the sorcerer twining themselves and their opponent during the fight? Because by the rules they don't have access to another person to twin before the fight and you can't make two copies of yourself through twinning.

Well, for a Wizard, he has 2 7th, 1 8th, and 1 9th slot.
His simulacrum (#1) would have 1 7th, 1 8th, and 1 9th after casting the spell to make it.
The simulacrum #1 casts the spell itself, using its remaining 7th level slot. Sim #2 has only 1 8th and 1 9th slot.
Sim #2 uses its 8th level slot to cast the spell, making Sim #3.
Sim #3 has only a 9th level slot as uses it to make Sim #4.
Thus, the Wizard has 4 simulacrums.

The sorcerer must use Wish, his only 9th level slot, to cast the spell. He twins it, creating two simulcrums. But, neither sim has a 9th level slot and cannot recover it, so it ends there.

A Sorcerer 3/ Wizard 17 (or whatever) with twin spell can convert enough spell slots to make enough sorcery points (in theory, I could certainly be wrong here as I didn't work that part out). Thus the orginal sims are twined, as are each one made afterwards. If that doesn't work, you would certainly have less but you would definitely have more than a pure Wizard due to twin spell. If I have the time I might actually work out the spell slot conversions as well to make certain this is theoretically possible.

A Sorcerer or Wizard could use Wish to create a Sim first thing, but not bring one with them.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Time Preparation??
Remember that "You must see" is the weaknesses of Portent. It's easily countered with Staff of Swarming insect's insect cloud

With time preparation, the winner is Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Glyph of Warding x2 day, Storing Conjure Celestial. Chooses a Coualt. It avoids concentration.
Subtle Wish for upcasted Planar Binding and go. You control a Coualt for 1 year and a day.
Repeat.
with 20k. you can do it 100 times.

100 Coualt that change shape into Counterflux Blastseeker humanoid for free counterspell and dispel. A lot of versatility here.

Greater Restouration counters hard Feeblemind.

Each Coualt is under effect to Extended Seeming spell to deceive the enemy that don't know who is the Sorcerer.

The Sorcerer enter on extended Etherealness.
Action for reappper
Quicken Spell.



It's becoming hard for "No contest, close thread diviner"

Are you seriously being this thick? Portent happens before anything else when Initiative is rolled. You haven't even acted yet.

And there is no prep, we've gone over this...

If you insist in this farce, I will simply ignore you. I am tired of your daydreams, delusions, and denial. If you have anything constructive to offer, great, but otherwise have a nice day.

 

[Hohige]

Are you seriously being this thick? Portent happens before anything else when Initiative is rolled. You haven't even acted yet.

And there is no prep, we've gone over this...

If you insist in this farce, I will simply ignore you. I am tired of your daydreams, delusions, and denial. If you have anything constructive to offer, great, but otherwise have a nice day.

Portent here is useless. Remember that you can use a Portent per turn. If you use it on initiave. you can't use it again.
No time preparation. No simulacrum. End it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Portent is here.
No time preparation. No simulacrum. End it.

This makes no sense, "Portent is here."???

I ended it a long time ago. You continue to post various builds, changing your mind on subclass and magic items.

 

[Hohige]

This makes no sense, "Portent is here."???

I ended it a long time ago. You continue to post various builds, changing your mind on subclass and magic items.

It's depends of ruling.

No time prep. Shadow Sorcerer
Little Time prep. Shadow Sorcerer

"but as I said, with Simulacrums, Divination Wizards win. No contest. Not ever. Might as well close the thread in that case. (Sorcerers would come in second place, also due to a twinned simulacrum.) "
Simulacrum nonsense cheese. Divine Soul Sorcerer nonsense cheese.
Action economy the Wizard brings 4, The Sorcerer brings 102.