Starbuck_II
Explorer
True, it says:
You ask Diety to send you something. You can only get exactly what you want if you have no diety (Cleric of as Calling variant) or if you know the individual's name.
This is why it is better to not havr a diety
Level 8 party defeats 30 level 6 fighters?
- Thread starter aboyd
- Start date
True, it says:
This is why it is better to not havr a diety
True, it says:
You ask Diety to send you something. You can only get exactly what you want if you have no diety (Cleric of as Calling variant) or if you know the individual's name.
This is why it is better to not havr a diety
well, assuming the cleric is of good alignment, his or her deity would send a good aligned Planar Ally, I would think? As a DM, I would consult the Summon Monster charts first for an idea of LG/NG/CG and go from there. I wouldn't delve too deeply into it if the players had pulled a surprise, as consulting different manuals for different ideas would slow the game down too much. If I knew they were going to call a Planar Ally, I would prep something appropriate.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Too late to help you plan? Hard to say without seeing the sorcerer's spell list.
Wind wall will give the sorcerer immunity from arrows/bolts. Surely he can kill or scatter the troops from the air, behind the safety of the wind wall.
What's the sorcerer got at 4th level? Wall of fire?
Wind wall is 3rd level for the cleric. Shape it into a column. Ring that with a wall of fire so they can't get inside the column and start blasting.
Of course if it were my sorcerer, I'd have taken confusion at 4th level, which would do a nasty turn on a bunch of 6th level fighters who cluster up at the bottom of the wind tunnel to try to shoot up at you...
Wind wall will give the sorcerer immunity from arrows/bolts. Surely he can kill or scatter the troops from the air, behind the safety of the wind wall.
What's the sorcerer got at 4th level? Wall of fire?
Wind wall is 3rd level for the cleric. Shape it into a column. Ring that with a wall of fire so they can't get inside the column and start blasting.
Of course if it were my sorcerer, I'd have taken confusion at 4th level, which would do a nasty turn on a bunch of 6th level fighters who cluster up at the bottom of the wind tunnel to try to shoot up at you...
QuaziquestGM
First Post
They "Burned the town to the ground"...and..."are building a new keep".
So the bad guys are in TENTS!!!???
You have bags of holding and access to the fly spell. Find a source of rocks and you win. Night attack dive bomb the fanciest tent, upending (and turning inside out for good measure) the bags at terminal velocity for several hundred d6 damage (DM might argue over area of effect vs random chance of hitting....point him to the "Volley" rules if you can find them), splash oil on the ruins, and then fireball. Retreat.
Also, are there any undead or golems in the cave that you could restrain and store instead of destroying?
After that, if the GM is a religious person of the Christian tradition, or has an education including biblical history, read the story of Gideon and employ variations of his tactics to drive off the now leaderless enemy on the following nights. It might work for you anyway, but it would be more effective with a GM of that background.
So the bad guys are in TENTS!!!???
You have bags of holding and access to the fly spell. Find a source of rocks and you win. Night attack dive bomb the fanciest tent, upending (and turning inside out for good measure) the bags at terminal velocity for several hundred d6 damage (DM might argue over area of effect vs random chance of hitting....point him to the "Volley" rules if you can find them), splash oil on the ruins, and then fireball. Retreat.
Also, are there any undead or golems in the cave that you could restrain and store instead of destroying?
After that, if the GM is a religious person of the Christian tradition, or has an education including biblical history, read the story of Gideon and employ variations of his tactics to drive off the now leaderless enemy on the following nights. It might work for you anyway, but it would be more effective with a GM of that background.
krupintupple
First Post
the 3rd level cleric spell prayer is absolutely insane. my PCs use it every battle they can and it really turns the tides, even though it is only a +1 luck bonus to attack, damage, save and skills. best of all, it also effects all enemies with a -1 to all of the above, which is totally sweet.
even better, it effects ALL allies within 60' of the cleric. if the slavers send in the slaves as fodder, get your most powerful diplomancers to tell them this is the time to revolt - role-play it up a tad "...as a humble servant of Pelor, I promise you freedom and justice! Join us brothers!" and the DM might bump your chances of having a mutiny. as soon as this happens, try to get near the slaves and then remind the DM that your prayer now effects them. while it's not a lot, even 1st level warriors will be benifitting from a +1 to damage/attack. this stacks with a bard's singing and, can get pretty silly, if used on a big enough group.
a bard using inspirational courage and a cleric using prayer can boost even mook-level slaves with a +3 to attack and damage. considering they'll be using clubs and a STR score of 11, they'll immediately become much more effective.
p.s. just read the whole "DM intends us to adventure and Slavers to retain all wealth". unless this is part of some grand, overarching plotline, it sounds like he's railroading you guys and being kinda of a jackoff. the reason i am so candid is because i used to do this myself about a decade ago; he could and probably could reward thoughtful playing and interesting developments.
ie: if he's worried about you guys getting too rich, simply let the surviving slaves consider one of the PCs their heroic retainer and they set about rebuilding the village with him as the mayor-protector. now, not only do the PCs get far more involved, but now there are a billion and one ways to rid them of one or two over-treasured situations, without being a railroading jerk about it.
even better, it effects ALL allies within 60' of the cleric. if the slavers send in the slaves as fodder, get your most powerful diplomancers to tell them this is the time to revolt - role-play it up a tad "...as a humble servant of Pelor, I promise you freedom and justice! Join us brothers!" and the DM might bump your chances of having a mutiny. as soon as this happens, try to get near the slaves and then remind the DM that your prayer now effects them. while it's not a lot, even 1st level warriors will be benifitting from a +1 to damage/attack. this stacks with a bard's singing and, can get pretty silly, if used on a big enough group.
a bard using inspirational courage and a cleric using prayer can boost even mook-level slaves with a +3 to attack and damage. considering they'll be using clubs and a STR score of 11, they'll immediately become much more effective.
p.s. just read the whole "DM intends us to adventure and Slavers to retain all wealth". unless this is part of some grand, overarching plotline, it sounds like he's railroading you guys and being kinda of a jackoff. the reason i am so candid is because i used to do this myself about a decade ago; he could and probably could reward thoughtful playing and interesting developments.
ie: if he's worried about you guys getting too rich, simply let the surviving slaves consider one of the PCs their heroic retainer and they set about rebuilding the village with him as the mayor-protector. now, not only do the PCs get far more involved, but now there are a billion and one ways to rid them of one or two over-treasured situations, without being a railroading jerk about it.
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aboyd
Explorer
Well, I don't think he's being mean. He's a really good guy, we'll be friends long after the game ends. The railroading is probably because it's the 3rd module that we've abandoned. We walked out of the RHoD module and left the towns to be destroyed by the horde. We walked out of the Freeport Trilogy and left the city to be mind-controlled. We ditched the new tomb-raiding module, and he tried everything possible to prevent it.
I suspect that if I spent hours & hours prepping to run a campaign module and then the players walked off into unprepared territory, I'd probably get tired of doing the leg work, too. I suspect he was trying to salvage his many hours of investment. So now the new question is, how can I get the party to have some success AND have the DM feel like his prep work gets used?
We have some unexplored caves near where we are. I think that's a possible goal -- he prepped those caves probably a year ago and we never explored them. That ought to be easy for us to finish and easy for him to DM. I think right now I'm going to head to our private game forum and try to start a discussion about plans for the team, so that we can give our DM lots of advanced warning.
I suspect that if I spent hours & hours prepping to run a campaign module and then the players walked off into unprepared territory, I'd probably get tired of doing the leg work, too. I suspect he was trying to salvage his many hours of investment. So now the new question is, how can I get the party to have some success AND have the DM feel like his prep work gets used?
We have some unexplored caves near where we are. I think that's a possible goal -- he prepped those caves probably a year ago and we never explored them. That ought to be easy for us to finish and easy for him to DM. I think right now I'm going to head to our private game forum and try to start a discussion about plans for the team, so that we can give our DM lots of advanced warning.
Jeff Wilder
First Post
This isn't quite true. Prayer affects all allies in a burst at the time of casting ... which makes it distinct from an emanation.
Emphasis mine.SRD said:
Get the slaves as allies and get them in range before casting the spell, and you're all good.
Well, I don't think he's being mean. He's a really good guy, we'll be friends long after the game ends. The railroading is probably because it's the 3rd module that we've abandoned. We walked out of the RHoD module and left the towns to be destroyed by the horde. We walked out of the Freeport Trilogy and left the city to be mind-controlled. We ditched the new tomb-raiding module, and he tried everything possible to prevent it.
I suspect that if I spent hours & hours prepping to run a campaign module and then the players walked off into unprepared territory, I'd probably get tired of doing the leg work, too. I suspect he was trying to salvage his many hours of investment. So now the new question is, how can I get the party to have some success AND have the DM feel like his prep work gets used?
We have some unexplored caves near where we are. I think that's a possible goal -- he prepped those caves probably a year ago and we never explored them. That ought to be easy for us to finish and easy for him to DM. I think right now I'm going to head to our private game forum and try to start a discussion about plans for the team, so that we can give our DM lots of advanced warning.
Some good points - if the PCs continually "ruin" his best laid plans, he might be a bit frustrated. However, it's kind of naive of him to think PCs won't try to stop/attack the slavers - it's almost a given if you're playing truly good aligned PCs/heroes. It's like an unwritten rule.
However, if he preps an adventure and you guys bug out, he's not doing enough to create incentives for you to stay... maybe a relative/friend of the PCs is among the slaves? Or, maybe one of the slaves tells them they have important info concerning a friend/relative, if the PCs do him/her a favor first? Granted, he can't completely twist your arms ("OK, there is a huge magical barrier at the edge of town that blocks even teleportation...") - but, he can give you better reasons to stay.
Of course, if you're all playing evil aligned PCs, then the incentive will have to be different than rescuing slaves, widows and orphans.
aboyd
Explorer
Hey gang. I want to revisit this thread because of this:
We have a ranger/fighter (TWF), sorcerer, knight, and cleric. All are at 9th level. We also have a hawk (ranger animal companion), a pseudodragon (ranger cohort), and a rogue3/cleric4 halfling (cleric cohort). About the sorcerer:
In addition, we had a confrontation with the slavelord that went badly. Two things happened. First, he surprised us by surrounding us with Verags. Maybe a dozen or more. We try to avoid metagaming, so none of us have looked up the monster to know how strong it is. We only know that back at 5th level we encountered two and we couldn't kill them because of their spring attack feats. Second, with the exception of my armor and weapon, the slavelord took all of my cleric's money & items, so I have nothing to use to hire any outsiders from a Lesser Planar Ally spell.
Since he took the loot, we have managed to scrounge up about 2500 gold, and we have found a merchant in the Underdark who will sell anything valued at 2000 gold or less. So here is where I need advice.
Advice?
The sorcerer has a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell slot open. What should he learn? I mean, what would be useful for an ambush or guerrilla warfare? We allow the Complete series, the core books, the PHB 2, and the Spell Compendium.
Also, what 5th level spells are good for my cleric? I have Righteous Wrath of the Faithful so far, very good buffing. I can take a few days and cast in succession if needed. I only have 1 5th-level spell per day, plus a Teleport from my travel domain.
Finally, what magic item(s) for 2000 or less is good? Right now I'm thinking of buying a Scroll of Call Zelekhut, plus a handful of Tanglepatch bombs (from the MIC). Can I do better?
Yep, we made it to 9th. We got out of the slavelord's valley (currently in the Underdark) and we're about to use my first 5th level spell to teleport back within range of the jerk. Many things have changed, and I'm looking for tips.
We have a ranger/fighter (TWF), sorcerer, knight, and cleric. All are at 9th level. We also have a hawk (ranger animal companion), a pseudodragon (ranger cohort), and a rogue3/cleric4 halfling (cleric cohort). About the sorcerer:
OK? Now, here is what we are up against. Thanks to some reconnaissance, we know it's much worse than we thought. There are 30 lvl1-2 warriors, 28 level 2-3 warriors, 9 sergeants/fighters level 3-4, 3 lieutenants/fighters level 4-5, 3 captains/fighters level 5-6, 1 ranger of 5-6 level, 3-4 Acolytes/healers (non-fighting men but they do brew a lot of potions and write scrolls), 1 cleric level 5 or 6, cleric lvl 6-7, Dere Conag (slavelord's right-hand man, supposedly about equivalent to our knight), and Lord Ranas Jorgos (slavelord, maybe a sorcerer).The sorcerer doesn't have Evard's Tentacles.Only Fireburst, Fireball, Fly, Web, Seeking Ray, Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and a few others I forget.
In addition, we had a confrontation with the slavelord that went badly. Two things happened. First, he surprised us by surrounding us with Verags. Maybe a dozen or more. We try to avoid metagaming, so none of us have looked up the monster to know how strong it is. We only know that back at 5th level we encountered two and we couldn't kill them because of their spring attack feats. Second, with the exception of my armor and weapon, the slavelord took all of my cleric's money & items, so I have nothing to use to hire any outsiders from a Lesser Planar Ally spell.
Since he took the loot, we have managed to scrounge up about 2500 gold, and we have found a merchant in the Underdark who will sell anything valued at 2000 gold or less. So here is where I need advice.
Advice?
The sorcerer has a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell slot open. What should he learn? I mean, what would be useful for an ambush or guerrilla warfare? We allow the Complete series, the core books, the PHB 2, and the Spell Compendium.
Also, what 5th level spells are good for my cleric? I have Righteous Wrath of the Faithful so far, very good buffing. I can take a few days and cast in succession if needed. I only have 1 5th-level spell per day, plus a Teleport from my travel domain.
Finally, what magic item(s) for 2000 or less is good? Right now I'm thinking of buying a Scroll of Call Zelekhut, plus a handful of Tanglepatch bombs (from the MIC). Can I do better?
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Dandu
First Post
If only there was a sorcerer guide that gave advice on such matters...
Good core spells for hit and run:
2:
Rope Trick (hiding)
Glitterdust (blind them)
3:
Explosive Runes (make lots of bombs)
Major Image (Illusions can mislead people away from you)
Dimension Step (allows your entire party to teleport short distances)
4:
Invisibility, Greater (hiding)
Arcane Eye (scouting)
Dimension Door (get away)
Feats: Invisible Spell, +0 metamagic that makes the effects of your spell invisible. It's from Dungeonscape, though.
You invisibly cast Invisible Fireballs at people from +400 feet away. Win.
If you can't use it, I'd recommend Greater Invisibility as your 4th, Dimension Step as your 3rd, and Rope Trick as your 2nd.
Good core spells for hit and run:
2:
Rope Trick (hiding)
Glitterdust (blind them)
3:
Explosive Runes (make lots of bombs)
Major Image (Illusions can mislead people away from you)
Dimension Step (allows your entire party to teleport short distances)
4:
Invisibility, Greater (hiding)
Arcane Eye (scouting)
Dimension Door (get away)
Feats: Invisible Spell, +0 metamagic that makes the effects of your spell invisible. It's from Dungeonscape, though.
You invisibly cast Invisible Fireballs at people from +400 feet away. Win.
If you can't use it, I'd recommend Greater Invisibility as your 4th, Dimension Step as your 3rd, and Rope Trick as your 2nd.
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