Level Adjustment for Genasi

[DreadPollock]

I'm not quite sure that the abilities inherent to the Earth Genasi, specifically, merits it a +1 level adjustment. For those who don't have the book in front of them, here's a rundown:

• +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
• Darkvision 60'
• Pass Without Trace once/day as a 5th level Druid
• +1 save vs. earth effects/ 5 levels
• Considered "Native Outsiders" (not humanoids; makes them immune to a few magical effects, including Charm Person, Daze, Dominate Person, Enlarge Person, Ghoul Touch, Hold Person, and Reduce Person. Ironically, they’re not immune to a Ghoul’s paralysis, but they are immune to Ghoul Fever. Also, you are susceptable to Banishment.)

First, the stat bonuses are unbalanced. They make combatants of this race pretty min/maxable. The same can be said of half-orcs to a slightly lesser degree.

Darkvision is a bonus, but a small one. The save bonus is small and very restrictive. Dwarves have darkvision, as well as superior save bonuses.

Being a native outsider is beneficial, but only slightly, and it comes with a penalty as well.

According to Savage Species: "Spell-like Abilities: Since characters of the standard races can generally duplicate this ability, it is worth a level adjustment only when those abilities exceed what a spellcasting character of a level equal to the creature's CR could do. If the creature can use any spell-like ability at will, it gains a +1 level adjustment."

So, according to these rules, which are official v3.5 rules, the "Pass Without Trace" ability is NOT worth a level adjustment, since a 1st level druid can cast it.

Here's one more quote from Savage Species: "The acid test: ...look at the monster's highest abilities scores. Assign it one level of the class that benefits most from those scores. Then ask yourself: Would you rather play a monster character at that ECL, or a standard character of
that level?"

So a human fighter:
Stats are all 10, 12 skill ranks, 3 feats, 10 hp

Half-orc fighter:
Str 12, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8, 8 skill ranks, 2 feats, 10
hp, Darkvision.

Earth genasi fighter.
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8, 8 skill ranks, 2 feats, 11
hp, Pass without trace, Darkvision, +1 vs. earth effects, Native
outsider.

I'll admit the Genasi is ideal, but it's not by that much. Feats are
great for fighters, and skills are good for everyone. Savage species
also says level adjustments can vary depending on campaign. I think if a
character is not built to capitalize on it's advantages, and said
advantages aren't worth as much in the campaign, it could push the
genasi back to a +0 race. It could push the dwarf up to a +1 race.

What do you guys think. I, personally, think that given one more decent advantage, or two small ones, like a +2 Natural armor bonus, or perhaps a stability bonus (like that of a dwarf) or some skill bonuses would make it a solid +1 race. Otherwise, it's only worth +1 if you really min/max it. Comments?

 

[Cyraneth]

I've been wondering about the same thing. Especially if you compare the genasi's level adjustment of +1 with the half-ogre's. Or an aasimar's, for that matter. A +1 bonus to saves against whatever earth-based effects there might be (earthquake?) doesn't really compare to energy resistance 5 against three different energies...

IMC, I've houseruled genasi to gain the save bonus to a slightly wider range of effects (depending on element), set their spell-like ability to depend on character level (instead of a set level). That way they compare better to the para-genasi from Dragon #297 too... I'm also thinking about giving all genasi (including para-) energy resistance instead of the save bonus. That would make them compare to the aasimar and tiefling as well...

As they're listed at the moment, they're more or less directly converted from the 2nd Edition Planescape setting. Not a good way of converting them to 3rd Edition IMHO, but whatever...

- Cyraneth

 

[green slime]

I agree that the Earth genasai are somewhat subpar.

On the other hand, the breathless ability of the air genasai is almost too good, IMO.

 

[Cyraneth]

I agree that the Earth genasai are somewhat subpar.

On the other hand, the breathless ability of the air genasai is almost too good, IMO.

Well, it is useful in many cases, replacing water breathing, granting them immunity to various cloud and fog spells, and granting them days instead of hours if they're ever trapped by a cave-in, but it won't help against an incendiary cloud or get the air genasi out of the collapsed cave.

It is a very useful ability, but nothing unbalancing or overpowering. Kinda like the abilities many players want their characters to attain just for the "coolness factor"... Longevity, altered appearance (think Divine Agent PrC), and being the last decendant of a powerful, but long dead culture. They are all neat things, but they will rarely ever be relevant in a campaign. Breathless is still useful and relevant, but not overly so...

- Cyraneth

 

[BryonD]

I have had one guy in my game play an earth gensai fighter in two different campaigns. He has not had any complaints and has not seemed at all weak.

I agree that it does not look good on paper. And it probably is sub-par. But not by so much that they NEED something else. (They could use a bit more flavor more than a mechanical boost, IMO).

I'd recommend giving it a try as is.

I'd certainly caution against giving them anything that makes them clearly a superior choice over human or half-orc.

 

[Cyraneth]

I'd certainly caution against giving them anything that makes them clearly a superior choice over human or half-orc.

Like they did with the half-ogre...?

- Cyraneth

 

[Technik4]

Like they did with the half-ogre...?

Even some of the designers of the 3.5 compliant SS half-ogre have stated it may be closer to a +2 ECL. Others on these boards have found that merely making the half-ogre take 2 levels of giant (a normal ogre has a +2 LA and takes 4 levels of giant, so it is exactly half of an ogre) rounds them out nicely. This is not to say that giant levels are bad, but they do delay advancement of almost every class in terms of class abilities (while not strictly speaking, limiting entrance into prcs). For instance a fighter half-ogre will acquire Weapon Specialization when the party is 7th level (Ftr4, Giant2, Half-Ogre+1). It certainly isn't unplayable (since you are still only paying 1 ECL for some fantastic abilities) but it is more balanced with genasi.

Speaking of genasi, my "fix" was to drop the negative Cha for all genasi. Genasi in general would seem to make an excellent "sorceror" race and the negative cha comes from silly things as written (imo). While society looking down on you could freak you out and depress you, it could also force you to adapt and grow stronger. The negative cha never sat well with me for genasi, I think it fits a lot better for Tieflings, Dwarves, and Half-Orcs (not to mention Orcs).

This change makes all their stat adjustments slightly more favorable, but as you can tell from your "optimum" example, it doesn't make them any stronger, just more versatile (for instance, bard, sorceror, and paladin genasi become an option rather than an uphill challenge). I've played in groups with air genasi and fire genasi and sometimes they are ahead of the game and sometimes a little behind, which is about right for an ECL +1 race.

A nice 3.5 flavor (especially if you like spellcasting genasi) would be to give them a +1 to DCs from their element (as a gnome gets +1 to illusion DCs). Its not overpowering, especially keeping in mind that a genasi spellcaster is 1 level behind the curve or worse (compare a human wizard to a genasi sorceror...).

If a player wanted to change the +1 save/5 levels to a flat energy resistance 5 (against their element) I wouldn't have a problem with it; and I do think the spell-like abilities should be set to their character level instead of a fixed spell level. Races of Faerun has more options for them as well.

I think a lot of your bias comes from comparing them to half-ogres. Remove the half-ogre (and possibly implement some of the above) and genasi don't look too bad anymore, at the very least it would be a nice diversion for the guy who always plays X.

Technik

 

[Celtavian]

re

I think if you removed the -2 Wisdom penalty they would be easily worth +1. That is the only change I would make.

 

[Cyraneth]

I think a lot of your bias comes from comparing them to half-ogres. Remove the half-ogre (and possibly implement some of the above) and genasi don't look too bad anymore, at the very least it would be a nice diversion for the guy who always plays X.

Technik

First of all, let me say "great reply"... I really like those alterations, but we should keep it down a little. Otherwise, this thread'll end up in the House Rules forum.

Anyway, I would still compare them to the slightly better aasimar and tiefling. Both of them have a net ability modifier of +4 or +2, respectively, energy resistances (plural), and are able to cast a 2nd-level spell once per day as a spell-like ability. Of all the genasi, only the air genasi comes close to them, with her levitate ability and the breathlessness. Well, the fire genasi comes close too, the bonus to saves against fire being more relevant than most of the other saves and the control flame ability mimicking a limited version of the pyrotechnics spell. But they're still only close to the aasimar and tiefling. On par would be better.

- Cyraneth

 

[Urbannen]

Speaking of genasi, my "fix" was to drop the negative Cha for all genasi.

This is a great idea. That Cha modifier was just thrown in there for misguided balance reasons, IMO. These are +1 LA races after all. It's funny, too, since the FRCS has an air genasi who is also a bard and sorcerer.