Level Advancement Rate in 3e
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Bendris Noulg
First Post
3e is too fast for me
That's a problem with the mechanic, not the Player.
In addition, because new Players don't know any better, they are thus taught to power-game by virtue of the system.
Incorrect. CR is set with an assumption that a character of Level X has Y amount of power. If your character doesn't have that amount of power, he get's creamed by what is supposed to be a fair challenge. Thus, by the nature of the CR system, Players are being told how powerful to make their characters.Buttercup said:
That's a problem with the mechanic, not the Player.
In addition, because new Players don't know any better, they are thus taught to power-game by virtue of the system.
At what point did I say that they were? In fact, I state that the system caters to both.
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Re: 3e is too fast for me
And what, exactly, is wrong with such an assumption?
And what, exactly, is wrong with such a system?
If you want to have 1st level characters, they have X gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
If you want to have 5th level characters, they have Y gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
If you want to have 15th level characters, they have Z gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
Now, perhaps you don't like how _fast_ characters go from 5th to 1st to 15th level, and accumulate X, then Y, then Z gp worth of equipment, but that's a completely separate issue. It has zip to do with the actual values of X, Y and Z.
I say again: if you're so concerned with "roleplaying" (whatever the heck that means), and driving the unholy power-hungry munchkins (whoever the heck they are) out of your game, just drop XP awards. You can't get more pure than that.
Bendris Noulg said:
And what, exactly, is wrong with such an assumption?
And what, exactly, is wrong with such a system?
If you want to have 1st level characters, they have X gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
If you want to have 5th level characters, they have Y gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
If you want to have 15th level characters, they have Z gp worth of equipment. You can still roleplay.
Now, perhaps you don't like how _fast_ characters go from 5th to 1st to 15th level, and accumulate X, then Y, then Z gp worth of equipment, but that's a completely separate issue. It has zip to do with the actual values of X, Y and Z.
I say again: if you're so concerned with "roleplaying" (whatever the heck that means), and driving the unholy power-hungry munchkins (whoever the heck they are) out of your game, just drop XP awards. You can't get more pure than that.
I have been thinking the same thing about how fast the characters advance. I have been toying with an idea of adding a "Time" requirement as well.
Advance from 1st level to...
2nd = 1 month
3rd = 4 months
4th = 8 months
5th = 13 months
6th = 19 months
7th = 26 months
8th = 34 months
9th = 43 months
10th = 53 months (4yrs, 5 mo.)
etc.
That's total "Game time". Basically 1 month/level spent AT each level. 10 months as a 10th level character before the possibility of advancing to 11th.
Multiclass characters- you would have to decide if you are going to go based on class level, or character level. I think class level would be more realistic.
If a character earns enough experiance points to advane before the minimum time requirement is up, they may earn up to 25% towards the next level before they simply stop earning Exp. until they advance. They can spend this time as down time, take care of personal business, or keep on adventureing, but for no Xp.
I would also suggest that at the half-way point to the next level (time wise) the character declare which class he is planning on advancing in, and take appropriate steps to begin to learn the new class abilities.
Advance from 1st level to...
2nd = 1 month
3rd = 4 months
4th = 8 months
5th = 13 months
6th = 19 months
7th = 26 months
8th = 34 months
9th = 43 months
10th = 53 months (4yrs, 5 mo.)
etc.
That's total "Game time". Basically 1 month/level spent AT each level. 10 months as a 10th level character before the possibility of advancing to 11th.
Multiclass characters- you would have to decide if you are going to go based on class level, or character level. I think class level would be more realistic.
If a character earns enough experiance points to advane before the minimum time requirement is up, they may earn up to 25% towards the next level before they simply stop earning Exp. until they advance. They can spend this time as down time, take care of personal business, or keep on adventureing, but for no Xp.
I would also suggest that at the half-way point to the next level (time wise) the character declare which class he is planning on advancing in, and take appropriate steps to begin to learn the new class abilities.
Bendris Noulg
First Post
Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me
That's someone else's preference being enforced by the rules, and thus fails as a "generic" rules-set. This becomes a double-failure since most of the new Gamers in the community see this as the "proper" method of play because it's supposedly balanced.
It's assumptive of style. It's saying the Y-ratio of power is balanced and sets a false impression that any other ratio is unbalanced.hong said:
RP is irrelevent to my point (but a nice effort on your part to make me appear to be the "RP Nazi"). My point is that the CR system indicates that PCs are supposed to have X, Y and Z amounts. By cutting that amount, a false impression is given of being underpowered, while increasing it gives a false impression of being overpowered. Thus, CR is saying "this is the amount they should have," and relates it to everything: Not just gold, but personal power, magic, everything.
That's someone else's preference being enforced by the rules, and thus fails as a "generic" rules-set. This becomes a double-failure since most of the new Gamers in the community see this as the "proper" method of play because it's supposedly balanced.
Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me
And how, exactly, is this a false impression? Put a 10th level fighter with a +1 sword up against a fire giant, and let's see who wins.
You keep rabbiting on about "false impressions". I put to you that you are easily impressed.
There's no such thing as a "generic" ruleset, and thus you are tilting at windmills.
You're entitled to your opinion. Of course, so is this guy.
My heart bleeds with sympathy.
Bendris Noulg said:
And how, exactly, is this a false impression? Put a 10th level fighter with a +1 sword up against a fire giant, and let's see who wins.
You keep rabbiting on about "false impressions". I put to you that you are easily impressed.
There's no such thing as a "generic" ruleset, and thus you are tilting at windmills.
You're entitled to your opinion. Of course, so is this guy.
My heart bleeds with sympathy.
diaglo
Adventurer
Schmoe said:
was there a survey given?
i wasn't assessed then.
so my vote is ultra slow advancement.
1 level per year. where 1 year = 3-4hr real life gaming time per session * 5 sessions per week * 50 weeks per year. or 750-1000 hrs gaming time.
i also like long time training and acquiring skills, knowledge, contacts, etc...
so that 750-1000hrs real life gaming time should equate to 5 years or so in the campaign time.
My current campaign started beginning of summer this year, so say 3 1/2 months ago, and we play every Monday night for 4 hours. The characters have just reached 7th level.
I'm happy with that advancement. I didn't think I would be since I like slow advancement.
Originally, I ran a very different, much slower XP gain campaign but it didn't work out, feeling much too slow.
Basically, my thoughts on the way XP is handled under 3rd editions is that WotC have got it just right, at least for me.
I'm happy with that advancement. I didn't think I would be since I like slow advancement.
Originally, I ran a very different, much slower XP gain campaign but it didn't work out, feeling much too slow.
Basically, my thoughts on the way XP is handled under 3rd editions is that WotC have got it just right, at least for me.
Bendris Noulg
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me
Arbitrary decisions don't validate other arbitrary decisions.
That'll hold more than the sympathy I'm after, since I'm not after any. I've stated the facts of the matter. Rather than refute them intelligently, you've resorted to sarcasm and smartass remarks, which only serves to validate me.
Of course, most conversations that turn in this direction end this way. That's why I keep the thimble on-hand.
Why? Because a Fire Giant is supposed to be an equal match?hong said:
Arbitrary decisions don't validate other arbitrary decisions.
No, rather that I'm not impressed, but have heard way to often about how the system is fine as is, yet this system is assumptive concerning power levels and thus broken by it's assumption.
The Core Rules are supposed to represent a generic setting, and thus I simply use it's own standard against it. Thank you for proving my point.
Shall I add you to the list of irrelevant opinions as well? You've said little to sway me, after all.
Hands Hong a thimble.
That'll hold more than the sympathy I'm after, since I'm not after any. I've stated the facts of the matter. Rather than refute them intelligently, you've resorted to sarcasm and smartass remarks, which only serves to validate me.
Of course, most conversations that turn in this direction end this way. That's why I keep the thimble on-hand.
