Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #13: Cleric

Welcome to the 13th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of the game’s cleric class. We're nearing the end of this phase of class playtests, with only a couple left to go!

What this is
This is a playtest document. We’d love you to try out the rules presented here, and then answer the follow-up survey in a few days.

What this is not
This is NOT the final game. It’s OK if you don’t like elements of these rules; that’s the purpose of a playtest document. Be sure to participate in the follow-up survey in a few days. All data, positive or negative is useful.

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Level Up Playtest Document #13: Cleric — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Welcome to the 13th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of the game’s cleric class.

www.levelup5e.com

When you're ready, please fill out the playtest survey here:

Mailchimp Survey

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[Staffan]

I'm not in love with this version of the cleric class. It brings in a lot of priest-ness (as in, being part of a religious hierarchy and having various religious taboos) as mandatory parts of the class itself, which I think is better handled by backgrounds and other more RP-focused material, or possibly optional features like exploration knacks. It's like having monkadept class features based around a dojo, or rogue class features based around a guild (and no, I don't like thieves' cant either). Churches, dojos, and guilds are certainly valid ways to cleric, adept, and rogue, but they should not be required.

 

[Faolyn]

I'm not in love with this version of the cleric class. It brings in a lot of priest-ness (as in, being part of a religious hierarchy and having various religious taboos) as mandatory parts of the class itself, which I think is better handled by backgrounds and other more RP-focused material, or possibly optional features like exploration knacks. It's like having monkadept class features based around a dojo, or rogue class features based around a guild (and no, I don't like thieves' cant either). Churches, dojos, and guilds are certainly valid ways to cleric, adept, and rogue, but they should not be required.

Perhaps some additional options that aren't so priest-as-profession-y, then? Personally, I think what they've done has a lot of potential (other than the too-small list of Vows), but I can easily see adding options for non-hierarchical clerics.

I'm assuming you want some "chosen by the deity" types. What sort of abilities would you include?

 

[Staffan]

Perhaps some additional options that aren't so priest-as-profession-y, then? Personally, I think what they've done has a lot of potential (other than the too-small list of Vows), but I can easily see adding options for non-hierarchical clerics.

I'm assuming you want some "chosen by the deity" types. What sort of abilities would you include?

Part "Chosen", but also part mystic. I'm thinking someone who is attuned to a fundamental force of reality without necessarily having some intermediary deity. I could see someone being devoted to, say, the ideals of freedom, or the pursuit of knowledge, or the mysteries of fire and through those wielding the same kind of power clerics do, but without that power ever getting close to e.g. Avandra, Oghma, or Onatar.

I also want clerics to be able to pursue their own goals while still representing their religions or forces. You should be able to have adventuring clerics who aren't on quests from their gods, but who are simply employing their divine magic while doing adventure stuff. The example that comes to mind is Fzoul Chembryl, as originally portrayed — yes, he was a cleric of Bane, but his job was co-running the Zhentarim (things got a little out of hand later). I could also see a cleric of Waukeen who works as a merchant, or a cleric of Moradin working as a smith, without having any interest in preaching about their particular religions and just serving as examples of a life well lived.

 

[tetrasodium]

I'm not in love with this version of the cleric class. It brings in a lot of priest-ness (as in, being part of a religious hierarchy and having various religious taboos) as mandatory parts of the class itself, which I think is better handled by backgrounds and other more RP-focused material, or possibly optional features like exploration knacks. It's like having monkadept class features based around a dojo, or rogue class features based around a guild (and no, I don't like thieves' cant either). Churches, dojos, and guilds are certainly valid ways to cleric, adept, and rogue, but they should not be required.

A cleric is basically a priest

Spoiler: define cleric

The cleric does have a bunch of knacks that are extremely useful to a party doing exploration.

• Talk to the dead spirits with grave markers/crypts/urns/pictures/etc while exploring some kind of undead or evil infested tombcrypt/ruin with ancestral guidance? ✓
• Let your allies effectively roll their hit dice with advantage during a short rest when they are trying to recover hit points lost while exploring? ✓
• Worried about falling while exploring? Let your faith catch you with graceful fall ✓
• Find your allies are getting exhausted while exploring with them? Monastic Austerity will help there ✓
• Want to know if that thing that looks like a beast you see while exploring is actually a celestial fiend or fey? Numinous Awareness will flat out tell you yes or no. ✓
• Want the diviner's swap a d20 roll but improved to where the GM can choose to give you a piece of information that will hlp you & yours while exploring? Premonition has got you covered ✓
• Not sure if those supplies you found while exploring are good? Preservation will tell you if something is poison ✓
• Want an our you can blithely explore by walking around knowing where & if possible how to avoid traps & foes? Rightous path has you covered ✓
• Want to knock off an ally's strife they picked up while exploring? Soothing words will do that ✓
• Pick one from fey fiend celestial elemental or undead, want to detect them automatically at 60 feet if they aren't under nondetection? Supernal intuition has got you covered ✓

Would those "exploration" knacks you mention not be better suited to a paladin than priest?

Spoiler: define paladin

Can you give any examples of what they would look like?

 

[Staffan]

A cleric is basically a priest

Spoiler: define cleric

View attachment 134526

The cleric does have a bunch of knacks that are extremely useful to a party doing exploration.

The exploration knacks are fine. My issues are with Sacred Call (which specifically talks about "spreading your message to the people", which not all religions are interested in), Devoted Vow, and Sacred Office.

 

[Staffan]

Thoughts time!

"No matter their religion or cause, a cleric is distinct from the average worshiper and even those at the highest echelons of its hierarchy."

This is one of those things that's been floating around D&D forever, but also something that doesn't get explained very well. In a setting where magic is relatively common and the gods or their representatives can be communicated with (relatively) easily, why wouldn't a higher-level cleric rise to higher levels of power as well? The high-level cleric is clearly more blessed by their god(s) than someone who is really good at bureaucracy and gladhanding and the like but can only cast low-level spells, or has no magic whatsoever?

Same reason you don't put Inigo Montoya in charge of your armies. The "wield divine magic" skill set is completely different from the "administer bureaucracy" and "organizational politics" skill sets.

 

[Staffan]

Another reason I want to split off the church stuff from the cleric is that you should be able to have spiritual leaders who aren't clerics. The person leading whatever passes for religious services among the Path of Light adherents in the kalashtar community in Sharn might very well be a psion, or a monk, or just a commoner/expert who is good with people and who is very devoted. That doesn't necessarily translate into skill with divine magic, but they'd still be a respected member of the community.

 

[tetrasodium]

The exploration knacks are fine. My issues are with Sacred Call (which specifically talks about "spreading your message to the people", which not all religions are interested in), Devoted Vow, and Sacred Office.

Sure it's ribbony, but it's a first level ribbon you get alongside defensive blessing spellcasting & your divine domain. I think wotc kinda limited the designspace sacred call could exist in mechanically by having so many domains give powerful level 1 features from all over the map though. Free modest lifestyle & letters of introduction from your church with ordination could be pretty useful same with the persuade (dis)advantage for zeal of the convert if you don't like the magnetic missionary crowd thing.

The two gods you mention are tools/smithing/innovation/knowledge. That magnetic missionary could be as simple as giving a demonstration into the basics of using several types of tools, new improvements within the field, or even wide magic magewright style ritual cantrip instructions related to one of those & the regular updates/letter of introduction type stuff in ordination could be news from within a field & introductions to various workshop heads. Zeal of the convert could likewise be friendly merchants/workshops associated with the trade/manufacturing group you work with but that could be a significant bump in power.

What kind of mechanics are you thinking of?

edit: It feels like that kind of stuff in the examples I rattled off could be better served by a sidebar about working with the gm rather than pages & pages of specific refluffs

 

[Faolyn]

Part "Chosen", but also part mystic. I'm thinking someone who is attuned to a fundamental force of reality without necessarily having some intermediary deity. I could see someone being devoted to, say, the ideals of freedom, or the pursuit of knowledge, or the mysteries of fire and through those wielding the same kind of power clerics do, but without that power ever getting close to e.g. Avandra, Oghma, or Onatar.

You can easily do that by being a cleric "of a cause" instead of picking a god.

Plus, it's often assumed in D&Dland that these causes can just as easily have their own organizations that are similar to, or actually are, churches. Although that obviously doesn't have to be the case in your setting.

I also want clerics to be able to pursue their own goals while still representing their religions or forces.

I think the problem is that that ability names are very priest-y (e.g., sermon, Sacred Office), but the powers themselves (other than Authority) aren't. Just ignore the name. You don't have to stand at an altar to deliver a sermon; you can just talk to a couple of people about why commerce or smithing or creating hordes of zombies is cool.

I will say that there's probably room for a "Sacred Office" that feels more "disorganized," if you'll pardon the phrase. If you can think of one, put it in the survey! I put a bunch of possible new vows in mine. You might also want to put in a suggestion that a Vow is optional--if you don't take, then you don't get the bonus, so it works out evenly. It's too late for me to add that to mine.

I could also see a cleric of Waukeen who works as a merchant, or a cleric of Moradin working as a smith, without having any interest in preaching about their particular religions and just serving as examples of a life well lived.

It's quite possible that a cleric of Waukeen or Moradin would have a "day job," as you will. From what I've read of many D&D gods, they don't have to spend their days doing whatever it is real-world clergy do; they're often expected to do their godly jobs of selling stuff or smithing stuff or making zombies or whatever, especially at the lower ranks.

OTOH, it's also entirely possible that a person who spends their day working as a merchant or a smith but who isn't also actively trying to enforce their god's tenets on a wide scale and be their god's PR person on the mortal plane may not get blessed with cleric abilities in the first place.

Same reason you don't put Inigo Montoya in charge of your armies. The "wield divine magic" skill set is completely different from the "administer bureaucracy" and "organizational politics" skill sets.

Another reason I want to split off the church stuff from the cleric is that you should be able to have spiritual leaders who aren't clerics. The person leading whatever passes for religious services among the Path of Light adherents in the kalashtar community in Sharn might very well be a psion, or a monk, or just a commoner/expert who is good with people and who is very devoted. That doesn't necessarily translate into skill with divine magic, but they'd still be a respected member of the community.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from. I favor Ravenloft, another setting where the gods are distant or nonexistent but clerics still get spells. And my own setting has "priest" as an occupation that can and often is taken by non-clerics. Last time my players dealt with a church, there was a cleric, a warlock, and a bard who were all priests (and all the equivalent of levels 2 or 3).

But while I agree with you, I kind of also find it hard to imagine that in your typical higher-magic D&Dland, you would have the High Priest as some low-level dude when there are people running around who can demonstrably bring people back from the dead and not have at least an honorary rank.

 

[Faolyn]

A cleric is basically a priest

Steffan means as in ordained clergymember, not just someone with clerical powers.