Leveless d20 . . .

[Sir Elton]

I figured it out. I can divorce levels from the d20 System completely and utterly. I can change how class works too. Why do it? Well, there are some problems with d20 that cramps my style. So basically, I would be altering d20 to fit how I think it should be run.

ACTION DANGER THEATRE! YEAH!

 

[Crothian]

Buy the Numbers

a pdf that does classless and leveless d20. It would be easy to keep the classes and still loose the levels using it.

 

[diaglo]

go the way of Chainmail (1971) by Gygax & Perren

1 hit = kill


see just how much the players try and roleplay to avoid combat.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

And use a d10 while you're at it.

I do not understand the fascination (or masochism) of people who want to alter fundamental aspects of a gaming system, when there are dozens out there that cater to every preference.

 

[buzzard]

Considering how divorced M&M is from levels in many ways, I suppose you could call it levelless D20. Sure, there are caps based on PL, but level gaining is not a huge part of the game, but I'd say those are only really to gauge challenges (which IMHO is a good thing).

buzzard

 

[Bastoche]

And use a d10 while you're at it.

I do not understand the fascination (or masochism) of people who want to alter fundamental aspects of a gaming system, when there are dozens out there that cater to every preference.

I can't speak for the others, but from my point of view, the reason behind this is as follow. Play a simple mechanic (d20 + bonus vs difficulty class) with a realistic system, rather than an abstract one with easy conversion table for our favorite campaign settings. Fir example, sure you could play a white wolf system based game in forgotten realms, but imagine the hassle of converting the monsters, NPCs, spells, etc. By creating a classless level-less d20 system, you can easily convert your favorite forgotten realms campaign to a more realistic/intuitive (rules wise) one.

I personnally get to dislike more and more the Hit dice, armor class and hardness madness. But I still enjoy playing in Faerun, Krynn, etc. So I'd like to see a high magic grim'n'gritty set of rules. Classless level-less fits this niche perfectly.

I'd like to see a d20 fantasy system that would not require magic items to be balanced. That way, you could set the magic level at any point and still be balance. Isn't that the idea behind d20? a completly general system that can be used for any genre?

 

[Sir Elton]

I personnally get to dislike more and more the Hit dice, armor class and hardness madness. But I still enjoy playing in Faerun, Krynn, etc. So I'd like to see a high magic grim'n'gritty set of rules. Classless level-less fits this niche perfectly.

I'd like to see a d20 fantasy system that would not require magic items to be balanced. That way, you could set the magic level at any point and still be balance. Isn't that the idea behind d20? a completly general system that can be used for any genre?

Certain aspects of d20 cramps my style. The reasoning behind CR, for instance. Also, another aspect is much of the fun is sacrificed for miniature gaming. I know DMs who prefer it, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a miniaturized version of Chainmail (1974) or wargames. Miniature gaming in the way of a Military Simulation than a hot action sequence on a movie show.

Sure, "Burning Shaolin" added the dynamics of stunt combat, but the way the heroes "graduate" from one level to the next creates an additional problem in simulating the adventures I want to run.

Case in point, dropping a T-Rex encounter in front of a bunch of 1st Levs to drive the point home in what kind of world they are playing in (Prehistoric). As one person put it T-Rex Encounter = Dead PCs. What happens if they managed to kill it? (and first levs can kill a T-Rex) They graduate to 4th level. After one encounter!

So what does this mean? This means lower level encounters are nothing to them. They killed a T-Rex! Instant psychological shift there! This means that the whole reality of the Prehistoric setting has changed for them.

There are several solutions to this little problem. However, the best way I think is toying with the game mechanics to produce a d20 game that fits my style.

 

[DarkMaster]

Not really Sir Elton. If they were able to kill the T-Rex, they probably had a lot of advantageous factors that enabled them to lower the challenge rating. Given the same circumstances the 4 th level party would have probably laugh at the encounter. A good measure to award XP is to look at how much ressources the party needed to use to defeat their opponent at their given level. From there you decide how many XP to award. I never give more than 1 level worth of XP to a party. I will do so only in very extreme situation where the party was extremely lucky and clever, usually only one member of the party is still standing.

Killing with a bow a trapped Tyranosorus Rex is much easier than killing a horde of 20 gobelin even at first level.

And unless you are giving a ton of free magical stuff or you have an army of PC there is no way your party was able to defeat the T-Rex on an open field.

 

[RFisher]

I do not understand the fascination (or masochism) of people who want to alter fundamental aspects of a gaming system, when there are dozens out there that cater to every preference.

That's OK. I don't understand people who don't enjoy tinkering with systems.

 

[MerricB]

I figured it out. I can divorce levels from the d20 System completely and utterly. I can change how class works too. Why do it? Well, there are some problems with d20 that cramps my style. So basically, I would be altering d20 to fit how I think it should be run.

ACTION DANGER THEATRE! YEAH!

Enjoy!

As the d20 System draws from innovations in many other games, there's no reason that you can't use parts of the d20 System in a game that you find better to play.

Cheers!