"Levelless" d20?

[Malacoda]

I dunno. When you're modifing the rules that much, I'd suggest just looking at a new game like RuneQuest or Pendragon.

If you mean D&D, I would agree. If you mean d20 Modern, I would disagree. D20 Modern lends itself well to classless, and going leveless isn't that much of a step. The characters in Modern are standardized enough that figuring out a balance between them isn't too hard.

 

[Mistwell]

If you mean D&D, I would agree. If you mean d20 Modern, I would disagree. D20 Modern lends itself well to classless, and going leveless isn't that much of a step. The characters in Modern are standardized enough that figuring out a balance between them isn't too hard.

And this, coming from the guy who already worked out a classless level-less system for d20 Modern

 

[Malacoda]

And this, coming from the guy who already worked out a classless level-less system for d20 Modern

Yeah, so they are words of wisdom, right?

Or not. I will have to run a campaign using those rules before I'll know. Sure looks spiffy on paper, though.

 

[Razuur]

Here is what we use for the levelless system in out group and it woorks really well.

+1 to Skill = 250 exp (you can only go up 1 rank at a time in a skill)

+ 1 to Class Ability (next one on your ability chain) = 2000 exp

+1 to Attribute = 8000 exp

+ to hit die = 2000 exp

New Feat = 6000 exp

Join new class = 10,000 exp (and then no further penalty)

We have found this works really well for us. Basically we did some math and averaged out the leveling process so that going up each level was the same. Averaged out the benfits for these and tried to figure how much it would cost if each level paid for part of say - your new attribute.

Of course you have to have players who aren't going to min/max and of course you need to have the GM approve all expenditures, but it works pretty slick. The only thing we really lose is the CR system - and we are big on RPing anyway. I give flat XP with bonuses for good RPing at the end of a session.

Let me know what you think. If you like it, use it. If you don't don't. It is free for the usage by anyone.

Razuur

 

[kengar]

Here is what we use for the levelless system in out group and it woorks really well.

+1 to Skill = 250 exp (you can only go up 1 rank at a time in a skill)

+ 1 to Class Ability (next one on your ability chain) = 2000 exp

+1 to Attribute = 8000 exp

+ to hit die = 2000 exp

New Feat = 6000 exp

Join new class = 10,000 exp (and then no further penalty)

We have found this works really well for us. Basically we did some math and averaged out the leveling process so that going up each level was the same. Averaged out the benfits for these and tried to figure how much it would cost if each level paid for part of say - your new attribute.

Of course you have to have players who aren't going to min/max and of course you need to have the GM approve all expenditures, but it works pretty slick. The only thing we really lose is the CR system - and we are big on RPing anyway. I give flat XP with bonuses for good RPing at the end of a session.

Let me know what you think. If you like it, use it. If you don't don't. It is free for the usage by anyone.

Razuur

I wonder how that would work for classless? Maybe ignore the class ability cost and just stick to Feats w/Prereqs?

 

[Razuur]

Ooops I forgot...


250 points for a +1 to a class skill, and 400 points for a non-class skill.

We thought about claseless, but frankly, with all of the multitude of classes available out there to use, we opted to keep them. As more supplements come out, the more classes seem to bve availalable, and that is not even counting the thousands of prestige classes out there.

For a fantasy environ, we opted to keep classes.

For a modern or futuristic setting, you could use the same rules using the CoC system generation, or the D20 modern. Those are both two takes on a modern generation system, and both have their merits and flaws.

y'know. I like the idea of some "template" to build on. Mostly because it inspires ideals. But some people don't. You could probably combine D20 modern and D20 CoC and get either class or classless. Take the ideas above, adjust to your tastes and walaa, you have levelless, and classless. Then you just need to figure out how to gauge challenges and experience.

Razuur.

And BTW - Mutants and Masterminds IS all that and a bag of chips...

 

[kengar]

OK, here's something I sorta threw together yesterday after reading some other people's ideas. I also "borrowed" a couple ideas from some otehr games. Bear in mind this was thought up for a lower-magic/lower-power Warhammer-style campaign, not D&D. Here goes:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1000xp = 5 Character Points (CP). The full 1000 must be earned to get any CP, no partial awards.
All 5 CP must be spent before next awarding. Cannot be "held over." Unused CP will be lost.

HP gained via raising CON or taking the "Toughness" feat (+3 hp)
Modified Toughness Feat: +2hp. Can be stacked. Maximum HP = 2 x CON.

[Note: Massive Damage Rule. CON+ in damage from one attack, DC15 Fort Save or fall to -1 HP.]

Feats: 3 CP each (and all prerequisites met)

Raising Scores: 5CP/pt. Maximum score = starting score +6 or 18, whichever is lower.

Skills: 1CP per rank for Core Skills, 2CP per rank for non-Core skills. Each skill can only be raised one rank at a time (post-character generation).

Spells:
Spell Level Cost
0th Level: 2CP
1st Level: 3CP
2nd Level: 4CP
3rd Level: 5CP

Ability to cast a given level spell is a Feat ("Cast 1st Level Spells", etc.)

BAB: 4CP/+1
Special: 2CP for Weapon Focus Feat, can be stacked on same weapon up to 2x BAB.

Defense Bonus: 3CP = +1 to AC (max. +5). (Luck bonus to AC for stacking purposes)

Saves: Save1 is primary Save (i.e. Reflex for Rogue/Thieves. Save2 is secondary, Save3 is tertiary, etc.)

Maximum Save bonus = 1/2 Base Score (i.e. Max. Reflex bonus = 1/2 DEX)
Save1: 2CP/+1
Save2: 3CP/+1
Save3: 4CP/+1

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now, this is somewhat tailored to the kind of game I'm looking at running, but a less "gritty" version could be adapted from the ideas above. Also. XP awards would be more "story" based and less CR/Combat based in this game.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

Check out Everquest RPG

 

[V_Shane]

Leveless d20? I think that would be Gary Gygax's original "Mythus Legendary Journeys". I played that system for about 2 years, first game I ever ran where everyone had a calculater next to them during combat.

 

[LostSoul]

Here is what I'm thinking of for classless, leveless d20.

At character creation, pick 8 skills. These are your class skills.

You get 16 + (4x int bonus) skill points to distribute among the skills. No single skill can be raised higher than 4 ranks at first level.

Base attack bonus is a skill. Your BAB = ranks - 3.

Fort, Ref, and Will are skills.

HP = 1/2(Con + BAB).

Spells are individual skills (or just 1 single skill, depending on the level of magic in your game). The DC to cast is 10 + Spell Level + (1/2 spell level). Save DCs are at the skill check for the spell.

Advancement: Typically, you will get 5 to 7 character points after each adventure. You can assign these to skills that you have used in the past adventure or those that you have trained in. You can only increase each skill by one rank after each adventure.

The cost to advance a skill is the skill's current level in skill points. Increasing a skill from 4 ranks to 5 ranks will cost 5 points.

Feats cost 4 skill points for the first one, 5 for the next, 6 for the next, etc. (This I'm not sure about yet.)

All PCs gain the feat "Combatant" at first level (or, it is at their option to take it). This doubles their HP (so that HP = Con + BAB).

Skill Mastery (as per the Rogue ability) is available at all levels for any skill with at least 4 ranks. (So that casters can take 10 all the time.) Optionally, Combat Casting also allows casters to Take 10 on any spell skill check.



This isn't D&D, but it is d20.