Licensing of Hobbits and Orcs

[Kris]

Ouch, so even the word halfling might be trademarked due to its existence prior to its introduction in D&D?

The shirefolk in LotR are referred to as Hobbits, Halflings, and Holbytla by differnt people within the story... but it seems only 'hobbit' it protected (I guess WotC have done similar things by removing some of 'their' monsters from the SRD).

yet Orcs are used widely by both WotC and other RPGs. What gives?

The word 'orc' does have some history (as mentioned above)... but I guess if someone started using orch (singular) or yrch (plural) to represent these creatures (i.e. the Sindarin (elvish) words from which orc/orcs is derived in Tolkien's works... themselves a variation on the Quenya (high-elvish) term) - then I guess someone, somewhere, might kick up a fuss.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, I simply do not believe that Tolkien invented hobbits. They are too similar to folklore characters in both name and concept. Folklore can produce incredible variety of names and concepts which are often only regional and obscure beyond belief. Because something is a "spirit" in one description doesn't mean it will not be small human in next town.

I believe he did. Sorta. I agree with you that he was pulling from the well of English/Germanic folklore in a strange kinda gestalt process as he did so--if he hadn't, the hobbits would have stood out something fierce against the backdrop of greater Middle-earth, but the specific iteration, and for this discussion, more importantly the word itself, it seems most likely that he did indeed invent it.

As he claims.

 

[Huw]

The word 'orc' does have some history (as mentioned above)... but I guess if someone started using orch (singular) or yrch (plural) to represent these creatures (i.e. the Sindarin (elvish) words from which orc/orcs is derived in Tolkien's works... themselves a variation on the Quenya (high-elvish) term) - then I guess someone, somewhere, might kick up a fuss.

You can have a lot of fun with fake etymologies. IMC, there used to be a group of people called the Arakh. They were really good at magic, hence the "modern" (in campaign) term arcane to describe magical things. One magical experiment they did went horribly wrong, and the result was the orcs. The name orc is a corruption of Arakh, since the orcs were originally normal humans (Arakhs) who were changed by the magic.

IMC I also have yants (same language root as ent). They're giant bats.

 

[RFisher]

I was under the impression that Hobbits and Orcs are both Tolkien's inventions. Yet, apparently WotC is unable to use Hobbits (at least by name), yet Orcs are used widely by both WotC and other RPGs. What gives?

(...staying away from who may have invented what...)

Because intellectual property is weird. Intellectual property law is weirder. Legal/business maneuvering due to intellectual property law is weirdest.

 

[Maggan]

T
The word 'orc' does have some history (as mentioned above)... but I guess if someone started using orch (singular) or yrch (plural) to represent these creatures (i.e. the Sindarin (elvish) words from which orc/orcs is derived in Tolkien's works... themselves a variation on the Quenya (high-elvish) term) - then I guess someone, somewhere, might kick up a fuss.

Incidentally, the swedish BRP clone Drakar och Demoner used the word "orch" for "orc" for about 20 years (now they use a variation that I can't remember at the moment). It's still possible that someone, somewhere might kick up a fuss if they found out, but so far nothing as happened.

/M

 

[S'mon]

(...staying away from who may have invented what...)

Because intellectual property is weird. Intellectual property law is weirder. Legal/business maneuvering due to intellectual property law is weirdest.

QFT!!!!

 

[S'mon]

Incidentally, the swedish BRP clone Drakar och Demoner used the word "orch" for "orc" for about 20 years (now they use a variation that I can't remember at the moment). It's still possible that someone, somewhere might kick up a fuss if they found out, but so far nothing as happened.

/M

Naw, the way TM law works, Drakar och Demoner now have a much better TM claim to Orch than the Tolkien Estate.

 

[Huw]

Incidentally, the swedish BRP clone Drakar och Demoner used the word "orch" for "orc" for about 20 years (now they use a variation that I can't remember at the moment). It's still possible that someone, somewhere might kick up a fuss if they found out, but so far nothing as happened.
/M

Ah, but what's orc in Swedish? What're killer whale and ogre? For that matter, since Tolkien based elvish on Finnish, what're those words in Finnish?

Reminds of a story I heard about an MTG tournament in Norway. There's an MTG monster called the Lhurgoyf, which is (like many MTG monsters) an anagram of one WotC's employees. Someone was insisting that the Lhurgoyf was creature from Scandinavian legend.

 

[Choranzanus]

As a sidenote, the word ogre is not related to orc but is probably derived from Ugre which means Hungarian.

 

[Roman]

As a sidenote, the word ogre is not related to orc but is probably derived from Ugre which means Hungarian.

I have some Hungarian blood in me, which makes this:


BTW: Si naozaj z Ciech, alebo mas v Cesku len korene?