[life] what should I do?

[der_kluge]

Sometimes life is hard.

I remind myself of that to reassure myself that these kinds of decisions are not easy to make.

At the company where I work, the powers that be have decided that it makes sense (it doesn't, btw) to send all their Information Systems people to IBM. So, in this phase (phase II), my company is sending over 1,000 people from their information systems department (yes, I work for a big company) to IBM. IBM has agreed to hire us, and we'll work on the contract supporting our company. Which, in essence, means that I'll do the same thing I'm currently doing, except I'll be a contractor with IBM, not my current company. This position is guaranteed for at least a year, beyond that, who knows.

On top of that, IBM has positions *within* IBM, that they want to fill right away. 225 of these, to be exact. They have said that we can request to be considered for this list. The nature of these jobs is unknown, but it is assumed that many, if not most are outside of where I currently live (Kansas City).

On Monday, I'll be given an offer letter from IBM. This will basically state that they wish to hire me at my current salary in my current position. I can either choose to accept it, or decline it. I have until the 30th to decide.

If I accept the offer, I'll be "rebadged" as an IBM employee on the 16th of September, and then would presumably work, more or less in the same role, for at least a year after that date.

If I decline, I'll be given an "out" date, which will represent my last day with the company. After that date, I'll get a severance package which represents 2 weeks per year of service, and for me that means 2 months of severance.

On top of this, of course, I along with everyone else in this sinking ship, have scoured the job websites frantically looking for something. Of course, given that the largest employer in this area is dumping about 1,500 of their I.T. folks, you can imagine what the Kansas City I.T. job market looks like. Needless to say, there isn't anything here for me.

I have, however, found a position that sound very good in Richmond, VA. This position is with Capital One (the, "What's in your wallet?" people) on a new Teradata data warehouse project. This pays around $45 per hour. They want to move quickly, and the client is anxious to start this new team.

However, I've never been to the east coast, let alone Richmond. I know the area is probably nice, and there seems to be tons of jobs in that area. Ironically enough, my sister lives there, so that's certainly a bonus. I intend to call her soon to get her thoughts on the area, but I do know that she's quite happy there.

The big thing is that we have a 2,000 sq. ft. house in a suburb here, which we paid a little over $170k for (wow, I'm really revealing a lot of personal information here, aren't I? ) . This kind of thing is completely unheard of on the east coast, and a comparable house would easily cost upwards of $500k there. Of course, even our house might be worth close to $200k now, since our suburb is growing so rapidly, especially if we are able to finish our basement.

It should also be worth nothing that my current position is that of "requirements analyst". I gather requirements and write technical documents for people to code against. This is a "process" position, and given a new process, which IBM intends to put into place over the course of the next year, could theoretically be eliminated, or altered to some degree.

So, I have several options:
1) rebadge to IBM, and stay in my current position, which could eventually get eliminated. I'm guaranteed a position for a year.
2) go with IBM and attempt to seek out one of their 225 special jobs which would most likely mean moving to a new city
3) go with the sure thing in Richmond, even though it would definitely mean moving, and selling my house.

I should add that there is a per diem option to consider in Richmond. I could live in Richmond for 6-9 months or so, on per diem, and leave my wife and daughter in KC while she gets the house ready, and we put it on the market. It might not sell at all during the winter, so it would allow us to not have two house payments, and when it did sell, she could move out, and then we could buy out there. It would also allow me some time to scope the area out, and should it be necessary, abort the entire thing, and move back home. So, that is certainly there as a safeguard.

One thing that I feel is important is career growth. If I go with IBM, I would be just another cog in a huge wheel. I feel like it would be hard to advance in that position, and I still have to keep my career, and long-term goals in mind. Moving to Richmond, while likely to induce some culture shock on my southern/midwestern self, would likely be the best option for me and my family. There's really nothing holding us to this area. Well, I speak for myself - ALL of my wife's family is here, and mine is 6 hours south in Arkansas. I know I would find gamers there, I know I could find a good community band to play in, and everything else is a wash. It's not like I'm moving out of the country or anything.

I'm wrestling with this one. It's not an easy decision. I'm interested in any thoughts anyone has. On Richmond, on jobs, or anything, really.

thanks for listening.

 

[SubMensa]

Tough decisions al around.

Now i can't advise you on the east coast region as I've never lived there I'm sure someone else can from these boards.

Hrmmm, I think my best advice for you all around would be to, talk your options over with your wife and sister, make a decision, and don't give in to the "what if's" that way lies madness.

A few points to consider:

Family is key, recently I had to move back to my hometown to be nearer to my family. There was no decision process for me to go through, i dropped what i was doing at the time and moved back for my family. In a scale of importance for my happiness there is 1-family, 2-friends, 3-job, and 4-everything else.

Consider your own household. Would moving cause stress on your family as your wife and daughter may be loosing friends / social groups. Are they both comfortable in moving to a totally new area where they may only know one or two people total and reestablishing themselves.

You mentioned a sister on the east coast as well, how close are you and would you be closer emotionally if you were nearer for support.

Regarding the Job front I am of two minds. Personally i am quite conservative, and would probably end up staying in the current area. Money isn't everything and there are always ways to make things work, no matter how distasteful.

You must be considering the job in VA pretty seriously if you are mentioning it as one of your three options. Don't let me talk you out of it if that is what would make you happy.

All in all, I wish you luck in finding the right choice for yourself. Whatever you choose remember you will always have your true friends to back you up.

 

[Dimwhit]

Check out housing (in detail) in the Richmond area. If you can afford something there, take that job. Working for large companies like IBM are (IMO of course) not fun.

 

[ArcOfCorinth]

I hope you don't mind me asking. Who is your current employer? If you don't want to answer, that's fine. I'm curious because the same situation is breathing down the neck of my future mother-in-law.

 

[Henry]

The biggest fear I would have is moving out to Richmond, to find out I HATED the job and climate at Capital One. Then again, I would tend to "play it safe" in a situation like this.

If you have a couple months' savings, I'd try it, especially if the $45 an hour is substantially superior. Are benefits comparable at both places? Where family is concerned, benefits and insurance are EVERYTHING.

 

[Umbran]

Working for large companies like IBM are (IMO of course) not fun.

I doubt that Capital One counts as anything other than a large company. Small companies cannot generally afford national television ad campaigns like Capital One's.

 

[der_kluge]

ArcOfCorinth, Sprint.

SubMensa, good thoughts. I certainly value the relationships I have with my family, but I only really see my family maybe 2-3 times per year, though I know my Mom would probably be devastated if I move 1,000 miles away. Though maybe that will convince her to come see her daughter as well, seeing as how they aren't on speaking terms (I won't go into that here).

I don't talk to my sister much, but of her family, I'm the only one she really does talk to. She's always kind of been our black sheep, and has more or less chosen to just write us all off. I'm sure she would love it if I move out there, and having a babysitter we trust would be a bonus, though I don't know where she lives versus where we might would end up living. I imagine that area can be quite large.

As for housing, yea, I'll have to research that some more. I understand in general the houses tend to be more of the townhome, condo variety, and single-family dwellings are generally a) small, b) old, c) uber expensive, or both a and b.

I'm fairly independent, so I don't rely on my family so much, though it may be harder on my wife. Her opinion is that we should do whatever is best for the family in the long-run. Her family (she is the step-daughter) doesn't ever see us, and I think in the 3 years we've lived here, they've been to our house 3 times, and they live an hour and a half away.

Long term, I am probably more inclined to go where the career takes me, though I would prefer to be able to settle down, and work for the same company until I retire, I just haven't found a good company yet. I kind of felt like the Richmond job might place me in a better place a year or two from now than if I stayed here and let the fates take over. IBM really only makes money by replacing U.S. employees with cheap foreign labor, so any incentive they have to remove me, and then replace me down the line with someone else, they will take. If they end up replacing our process, which is on the drawing board, that could end up putting my job in jeopardy. I have always felt that it was better to be in charge of my own destiny than to leave that in the hands of a corporation. IBM will also remove all the contractors that we employ, which is significant, since we are the largest employer in this area. If all the contractors become unemployed, the market here becomes even worse, then the housing market will suffer. Even if I do stay, and I continue to be employed, I'll be dealing with people whose name I have a hard time pronouncing, who don't know our systems, and whom I can only communicate with via very poor quality phone lines. That can become very frustrating over time. The whole outsourcing agreement seems to have devolved into a us vs. them mentality with regard to the agreement, because I am in constant battle with IBM (as a non-employee) with regards to their commitments and agreements. It's only going to get worse, and any mistakes that occur will get blamed on their other guy, which will just lead to a bad situation all the way around.

 

[der_kluge]

The biggest fear I would have is moving out to Richmond, to find out I HATED the job and climate at Capital One. Then again, I would tend to "play it safe" in a situation like this.

If you have a couple months' savings, I'd try it, especially if the $45 an hour is substantially superior. Are benefits comparable at both places? Where family is concerned, benefits and insurance are EVERYTHING.

Henry, I agree. That's why I will probably opt for a per diem arrangement, whereby I can "try before I buy". My wife will remain in KC, and I can get an apt. there for 6-9 months. I should know whether I like it after the first month or so, and if I totally hate it, I could just bide my time and find something else. If I really like it, I could have my wife put our house on the market, and then hopefully it would sell by the time our per diem is up. Meantime, we aren't paying for two places to live. The benefits do seem comparable. Matching 401(k), vision, dental, health, AD&D (no, not the game!), even says that exempt employees get overtime pay (which is unheard of!), parking allowance, and relocation expenses. I'm making ~40 per hour now, so it's not a huge increase, especially considering what the cost of living out there might be.

But it's like I told my wife, because one of her coworkers suggested we go out there and go to a restaurant and grocery store to see what the costs where like. I told her milk and eggs and things bought off Amazon.com cost the same no matter where you live. Ok, milk and eggs might be cheaper in Milwaukee than in New York, but probably not by much. The thing to look at would be housing and taxes. We'd just have to alter our expectations about the kind of house we had. If we could do that, I'm sure we would be ok.

I also hear there is a rocking ENworld Game day in Richmond.

 

[Torm]

I can't agree with SubMensa enough that your wife and daughter go at the top of the heap - if you don't have them, what the heck are you working for? You won't believe all the changes your daughter will go through and things you will miss in 6-9 months. I know its cliche, but nobody on their deathbed ever thinks, "I should have spent more time in the office."

Basically, out of what you mentioned, I'd be looking at three options:
1. Move to Richmond on a permanent (?) basis, not per diem. Per diem would leave things as up in the air at the end as they would be at IBM, AND you'd miss your family. Richmond is pretty alright, compared to KC - if anything, I do believe the crime rate is lower in Richmond. (I've been to both on many occasions.) Make sure that if you end up in a smaller living space, you at least get something close to a park or other place you can comfortably get out a lot.

2. Go for the permanent (?) position with IBM, and work your tail off to make sure they know you're a good worker - including stopping to help people with things you're not responsible for when possible. Your position may get phased out, but companies will find a place for someone who shows a willingness to WORK for them, and friends in other departments will help you to know when you might want to "swing across" to another more stable position.

3. (One you didn't mention.) Sack the whole lot of it, and find something more sane to do than I.T. (I should mention I work in the same field.) During the dot-com bubble, our country had everybody who could SPELL "Internet" and their brother employed in the computer industry. Now that we've come to our senses somewhat where that's concerned, we've realized that a LOT of those positions were useless fluff in any given company compared, oh, say, the people working on the actual assembly lines for product. Unfortunately, all those computer-tech-wanna-bes are now floating around with reasonably nice looking resumes, making life a b*tch for those of us who actually are willing to work and KNOW our stuff, and expecting the same type of fluff positions they had before. Someone with the level of intelligence it takes to do what we do should be able to pick up another marketable skill in a more stable field quickly enough, if you don't have one already. And if nothing else, maybe that guy in Office Space had it right, and digging ditches as a good, honest living isn't so bad....

Or maybe that 3rd one is just me projecting my wishes onto you.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[der_kluge]

I doubt that Capital One counts as anything other than a large company. Small companies cannot generally afford national television ad campaigns like Capital One's.

No, I don't Capital One is a small company. But, unlike IBM at least, they are centrally focused (banking/credit), and they are centrally located. IBM has over 330,000 employees, at least half of which aren't even in the U.S.

One of things, according to their website, that I liked was their emphasis on I.T. That is, their business was built around technology, not the other way around. My first job out of college was with Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart had a HUGE emphasis on technology - they win all kinds of I.T. awards, are leaders in a number of categories, and have the world's largest non-government database (80 terabytes last I heard). I.T. had a lot of respect there.

Take Sprint for example (please!) - I.T. is a bastard stepchild of the business, and the business runs everything. The business *tells* I.T. what they want done, and we have to deliver - whether it makes any sense or not. There is no two-way communication between I.T. and the business side. For the most part, the business side runs the show, and most the people in the I.T. side don't even understand the business side. At Wal-Mart, I.T. staff knew the systems the business side used better than the business folks, and it made a huge difference in the quality.

When you get into that kind of situation, it can make a huge difference in the quality of the environment. It was a key selling point for me.