Lifetime boycott of D&D-branded products?

[GMforPowergamers]

Nobody is asking anyone to burn their books or their iPhones. You do whatever you feel is right for you, that’s all that can be expected of anyone.

again, I understand what the situation is... and that there will be people who call for a boycott and then go buy 1D&D (and I'm not sold fully on that yet)

You gave other companies you don’t boycott as your reasoning for deciding not to boycott WotC.

no I didn't, I agreed with the idea though.

The implication there is that others who do boycott WotC and don’t boycott those other companies are being inconsistent.

inconsistent I think is a better word for it then hypocrisy

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm sure with about 2 minutes of googling I can find an example of a well known Western company who's products (or components) are manufactured with Chinese prison labor. The point stands. The WotC situation is s--tty, but it's not a literal crime against humanity. Regardless, we all get to choose where to focus our outrage.

IF I only did business' with companies that 100% do what I consider 'good' I think I could not survive in this world

 

[Umbran]

How about a ‘lifetime boycott’ from purchasing new D&D-branded products?

As I just mentioned in another thread.

Your only leverage with WotC is your wallet. If your tell WotC you will NEVER purchase D&D branded products, they no longer need to care about what you think.

They might care if you say, "I won't buy your stuff until you make it right," because then you are still a potential wallet, and still have leverage.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

As I just mentioned in another thread.

Your only leverage with WotC is your wallet. If your tell WotC you will NEVER purchase D&D branded products, they no longer need to care about what you think.

They might care if you say, "I won't buy your stuff until you make it right," because then you are still a potential wallet, and still have leverage.

That’s a fine strategy, but I’m just speakin’ my truth.

After a demeaning experience at Wal-Mart, I vowed to never shop at or set foot in a Wal-Mart again. And I’ve honored that for a decade or more. I don’t care whether my parting words were ‘optimally crafted’ to leverage a future change in Wal-Mart or not. I’m a-just movin’ on to other pastures.

 

[Umbran]

That’s a fine strategy, but I’m just speakin’ my truth.

You already said that elsewhere. I already said that's fine.

I am not trying to convince you, personally, of anything. If necessary, consider that, while I was responding to your words, you are not my post's target audience. I am giving other people food for thought.

 

[Sabathius42]

IF I only did business' with companies that 100% do what I consider 'good' I think I could not survive in this world

Truth.

How many boycotters are going to order their non DnD books printed in China by a person on their 78th hour of work for the week and expect it delivered in two days by some delivery driver out working at 10pm because an Amazon order can't be late.

 

[Cadence]

"Nothing's perfect so we shouldn't have any moral or ethical standards about what we buy." seems an odd take, and I will assume that most of the posters upthread and elsewhere who sound like that don't mean it to sound so extreme.

I will admit that it often seems like the stands one finds oneself taking probably often look more rational on the personal level than when dissected carefully with a global perspective - both in terms of the problem being addressed and the impact of the choice. Doing something small that might make a positive difference is still doing something that might make a positive difference though.

 

[MGibster]

After a demeaning experience at Wal-Mart, I vowed to never shop at or set foot in a Wal-Mart again. And I’ve honored that for a decade or more. I don’t care whether my parting words were ‘optimally crafted’ to leverage a future change in Wal-Mart or not. I’m a-just movin’ on to other pastures.

I had a terrible experience at Circuit City and I refused to shop there ever again. Nearly twenty years later, they went out of business. Coincidence? Probably. By the time they went out of business I had forgotten what they did to piss me off so much to begin with.

I have to agree with @Umbran on this one. If someone declares they're never going to buy D&D products ever again, why would WotC care what you think? A boycott works by applying pressure, if you're not a customer you've got no way to apply pressure.

 

[Parmandur]

"Nothing's perfect so we shouldn't have any moral or ethical standards about what we buy." seems an odd take, and I will assume that most of the posters upthread and elsewhere who sound like that don't mean it to sound so extreme.

I will admit that it often seems like the stands one finds oneself taking probably often look more rational on the personal level than when dissected carefully with a global perspective - both in terms of the problem being addressed and the impact of the choice. Doing something small that might make a positive difference is still doing something that might make a positive difference though.

It's less "nothing us perfect" and more "this is fairly tame" among all the potential issues to be concerned with in the world, and there are plenty.

 

[Cadence]

It's less "nothing us perfect" and more "this is fairly tame" among all the potential issues to be concerned with in the world, and there are plenty.

Yes. Yes there are :-(

I bet we forget that a lot when cut off in traffic, or having a package stolen, needing to wait for the *&($ 10k or bike race to end and stop blocking the streets, or the neighbor with the fireworks to give it a rest too.

 

[Clint_L]

This is literally the “you have criticisms of society, yet you participate in society” meme but unironically. If you don’t want to participate in a boycott of WotC that’s your prerogative, but “if you boycott anything you have to boycott everything” is an unattainable standard. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, we all have to pick our battles, and it is not at all surprising that in a community of people who are deeply invested in a hobby, the battle over Creative Commons within that hobby is one many of us would pick.

You don't think, "Let's cancel D&D forever because of a thing they might do!" is a just little stronger than "I am critical of them"? And a little hyperbolic, given the corporate malfeasance that all of us routinely overlook?

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think we are only in this situation because Hasbro/WotC actually behaved a little better than most corporations by creating and supporting the OGL for two decades. You think Disney would ever do that? So, yeah, the change sucks. If there is a change, that is. I don't like it. But I find it illogical to suddenly act like Hasbro are incredible supervillains for doing what most of us totally ignore from other corporations every day.

Edit: and if our justification is basically, "yeah, but this affects my hobby that I am deeply invested in," then that is not a great ethical stance, in my opinion.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes. Yes there are :-(

As an example, WotC prints all D&D games in the U.S. instead of third world sweat shops. That's more significant to me than any "Open Gaming" considerations, because of how labor is treated. I buy these books from my local Comics/Game ship, so it supports a local business (that, incidentally, doesn't even carey third party RPGs!). Way more important than "Open Gaming" to me.

 

[Scribe]

Perspective.

Indeed, perspective.

Modern company, who made pains to paint themselves as 'one of the good ones' with a present day action, to trample on the lives of many, in the year 2023, out of naked greed, who supplies (check's notes) hobby material, luxury product by any definition.

vs

Companies that provide the mechanism's by which the modern world functions, for actions some supported in Germany, some 80 odd years ago.

Perspective, indeed.

 

[Parmandur]

Modern company, who made pains to paint themselves as 'one of the good ones'

And you never picked up on that particular red flag...?

 

[Scribe]

And you never picked up on that particular red flag...?

Oh I did. Its what makes the schadenfreude at Wizard's expense particularly fine.

 

[Parmandur]

Oh I did. Its what makes the schadenfreude at Wizard's expense particularly fine.

I mean, they'll be fine. The kerfuffle will pass, as others have before.

 

[Scribe]

I mean, they'll be fine. The kerfuffle will pass, as others have before.

Of course they will be fine. They have people out there pining away for their D&D Lifestyle Brand Plushie (TM).

Whats a little moral failing between a consumer and his dealer, to get in the way of sweet merch right?

 

[Cadence]

<deleted since it was unhelpful>

 

[Composer99]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think we are only in this situation because Hasbro/WotC actually behaved a little better than most corporations by creating and supporting the OGL for two decades. You think Disney would ever do that? So, yeah, the change sucks. If there is a change, that is. I don't like it. But I find it illogical to suddenly act like Hasbro are incredible supervillains for doing what most of us totally ignore from other corporations every day.

That last statement is frankly an unwarranted personal attack.

I don't think anyone ignores what corporations often get up to, although some folk downplay or support such behaviour (just look at how many have carried water for tobacco or fossil fuel interests over the years - often the same people, even!).

But we've had 20 years of being able to expect better from WotC, whereas I doubt anyone really expects better from, say, Philip Morris or ExxonMobil, and so WotC turning heel like this is going to sting.

Not to mention the fan activism seems to be having a more significant effect on what's going on at WotC than what often happens when big company ethics are interrogated by the public.

 

[Yaarel]

IF I only did business' with companies that 100% do what I consider 'good' I think I could not survive in this world

The shade of gray does matter.