Unearthed Arcana Light, Dark, Underdark - November's Unearthed Arcana

Interesting stuff.

 

[Al2O3]

I see a lot of comments that Sentinel and Tunnel Fighter work well together. Meh, not so much, in practice. Tunnel Fighter works to prevent the "Conga Line" issue with the movement rules. But Sentinel stops creatures near you. Stopping creatures near you means the Conga Line doesn't work very well (it leaves fewer spots to occupy for those participating int he Conga Line, and slows their movement due to difficult terrain of their ally's space). Sentinel reduces the number of creatures that can get to you in a Conga Line, which means Tunnel Fighter would be triggered less if you have it. There is some synergy there, but the synergy is not "a whole lot more Opportunity Attacks". Adding Sentinel to the mix reduces the number of Opportunity Attacks you will make with Tunnel Fighter, not the opposite.

That is exactly the combo I think I have referred to (with the rear-guard thing). Great if you want to go for "prevent enemies from reaching back row" the combination is wonderful (or prevent getting swarmed). For maximum number of attacks, not so much no.

 

[bganon]

I see a lot of comments that Sentinel and Tunnel Fighter work well together. Meh, not so much, in practice.

I'm still pretty OK with Tunnel Fighter, but to me the weird corner case isn't with Sentinel, it's with Polearm Master. TF+PM means if a single foe tries to get past you, you get up to three attacks: free OA for entering reach, TF reaction for moving more than 5 feet within reach, and another free OA for leaving reach. That's... a lot, potentially even at level 1 with variant human.

The reason I'm still pretty OK with it is that whether this actually ever happens is entirely under the control of the DM. That's a pretty determined creature to keep ignoring the Fighter. As a DM, if I have a player that wants that badly to play an aggro-drawing tank, I don't see why it hurts to oblige him/her. The opportunity cost is not insignificant.

 

[Duganson]

Just talked to Mearls via Twitter.

"Nice job on the new UA. Might there be any new Invocations to accompany the new Patron?"

"If it proves popular, could get some."


So there's that.

Awesome, thanks for that. I can see this archetype getting very popular indeed.

 

[rollingForInit]

Nothing should provide unlimited AoOs. Not a feat, not a spell, nothing. It opens the door to absurdity that rules lawyers try to force on DMs. Whoever wrote that fighting style didn't think it out too well.

How? Why? Martial characters have very limited reach, and they have to spend their bonus action every roundto do this. That means they cannot function as effective in an offensive manner.

It allows a player with the fighting style to swing far more times than character without that fighting style when a large number of AoOs are allowed.

Yes, that's the entire intent of it? It's great for a fighter that wants to be a real defender. It's not great for a character that expects to make heavy use of bonus actions for other things. Great Weapon Fighting or Duelist are still potent fighting styles.

It also creates problems if they create feats like Polearm Master that allow for AoOs when approaching a player or Sentinel when allowing AoOs for a player that moves away regardless of using Disengage. It will create long-term problems with any feat that allows an AoO for other situations. I watched this crap with Combat Reflexes in Pathfinder with abilities like Come and Get Me where the player was able to swing an absurd number of times. Combat Reflexes that maxed AoOs at a Dex modifier + 1 was bad enough. When the Mythic Adventures book came out allowing for unlimited AoOs, Come and Get Me and some similar abilities can't remember the name of became ridiculous.

That's a very big if. They have released 1 new feat across both the official material and all the Unearthed Arcana. This implies to be that feats won't be published in great amounts or without great care.

Allowing an unlimited AoO abilities opens the door to absurdity. It becomes worse when some game designer forgets and puts in an ability that synergizes with a feat to create ridiculousness. 5E is already far too easy a game. A fighting style like this just makes a DM's ability to challenge more difficult.

How is it "too easy"? Compared to what? It's not really inteded to be the most brutal RPG out there. But if you want to, you can definitely design adventures that are super brutal. There were abilities like this in 4e, and it never posed a problem to our group. It offers martial characters some manner of crowd control, not a whole lot more than that. Unless the DM just sends all the critters running by, which would be pretty stupid.

On top of that, being able to swing that many times compared to say something with much better reflexes looks stupid in my mind's eye. I

If 6 characters run by the fighter, you could just see it as two or three strikes knocking all of them down, or the fighter using both swords and shields to block them, or whatever. Be creative.


In the end, a lot of people seem to love this fighting style because adds something a lot of people feel is serious lacking. Why should they "fix" it just because you don't really like it, when a lot of people love it and have no problems with it?

 

[Radaceus]

BTW to the above poster(s): AoO's are reactions not bonus actions

You are not allowed more than one reaction, nor bonus action per turn.

the problem is, if we are reading this correctly, Tunnel Fighter sets up a precedent for multiple reactions per turn...breaking the RAW/RAI and opening the door for absurdity.

 

[demadog]

Radiant Warlocks are never more dangerous then when their dead!

 

[rczarnec]

BTW to the above poster(s): AoO's are reactions not bonus actions

You are not allowed more than one reaction, nor bonus action per turn.

the problem is, if we are reading this correctly, Tunnel Fighter sets up a precedent for multiple reactions per turn...breaking the RAW/RAI and opening the door for absurdity.

The bonus action is for the stance and this has to be spent each round if you want to have this ability active.

The way that it is written, it does not allow a character to take multiple reactions. It allows the character to take OAs without using a reaction. There is a difference.

 

[RSIxidor]

I'm still pretty OK with Tunnel Fighter, but to me the weird corner case isn't with Sentinel, it's with Polearm Master. TF+PM means if a single foe tries to get past you, you get up to three attacks: free OA for entering reach, TF reaction for moving more than 5 feet within reach, and another free OA for leaving reach. That's... a lot, potentially even at level 1 with variant human.

The reason I'm still pretty OK with it is that whether this actually ever happens is entirely under the control of the DM. That's a pretty determined creature to keep ignoring the Fighter. As a DM, if I have a player that wants that badly to play an aggro-drawing tank, I don't see why it hurts to oblige him/her. The opportunity cost is not insignificant.

I was about to correct you before I went and checked the Polearm Master feat to be sure and it clearly states it's an opportunity attack. I thought for certain that it was a reaction-using non-OA attack, like Mage Slayer and Sentinel have.

Speaking of Sentinel, that 0 speed effect will likely be pretty good with this FS. Now THAT is stickiness we have not seen in this edition.

 

[CapnZapp]

Your arguments are not good at countering his claim that multiclassing is very powerful, Minigiant.

The fact there exists weak MC combos is generally irrelevant. Just as long as a single combo is powerful, MCing can be said to be powerful.

 

[CapnZapp]

Radiant Warlocks are never more dangerous than when they're dead!